Ashikaga Shogunate mod v1.01

[Osium]

The most common weapon of fuedal japan was without question the spear called the Yari. Samurai used it sometimes, but it was the weapon of the masses. Other weapons that might be considered would be naginata and its variations. I believe there was a variant of the naginata used by cavalry, essentially a short blade on spear, perhaps a halberd might be able to represent this?

The Sohei also used the naginata, im not sure what the best weapon to represent a naginata would be, it is obviously a reach weapon with tremendous damage potential.

A Brief History of the Naginata, shamelessly taken from a shogun totalwar forum.

The Naginata is a weapon with a rich history, utilized and refined from the Nara Period (710-784 A.D.) to today. Employed initially by the Bushi, it later found itself the specific weapon of the Sohei or Buddhist monks. It is the school of the spear and, as such, is a shafted weapon. The length of its oval shaft varied, from 5' to 8', depending on battle conditions and personal requests. The most striking feature, however, was the blade; it could be anywhere from 10 inches to more than 2 feet, and was sharpened on a single side, fashioned in the manner of either Sakizori or Uchizori. As with most shafted weapons, it was most devastating when utilizing sweeping, circular motions. However, thrusts with the blade and also the heavy ishizuki on the butt end were acceptable tactical alternatives.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Anyway, I think the problem is that you're double-specifying; just use 56, not 56 and "hoof".

That's precisely what was wrong (double-spec). Thanks!

[Arryn]

Originally posted by PDF:
A little remark also : encumbrance amongst the munted units in the mod is uneven, Daimyo has 1 and Horse Samurai 3.
Mod guidelines suggest a 5 for mounted troops : is this change a design decision ?

I doubt it was. He's already said that he'd overlooked the #mounted command, which changes the way enc is calculated. I expect that the 'proper' value of 5 is what you'll see in v2.00.

[Pocus]

I mostly have problems with the cost of the 2 big mages and apprentice. They are too cheap by 15 to 20%, in my opinion.

The race is really cool looking, and have a nice background though.

[Adept]

On the subject of Nipponiese bows:

The bows are large and impressive looking, but that doesn't make them superior to european longbows.

As has been mentioned here, the japaniese bow wasn't expected to pierce a samurai's breastplate.

The Welsh longbow, on the other hand, was the bane and terror of knights, and european bodkin arrows did punch through heavier armour than the japaniese ever used.

The japaniese samurai culture didn't evolve in the same surroundings than european warfare. Samurai sword-art is graceful and their archery and artform. This doesn't make them superior to their european counterparts.

Longbows are a pretty good representation for samurai archers, even though their penetration power propably is too high.

Light armour and high attack skill (not that much defence) and high speed would seem a good modelling for samurai swordsmen.

Naginata and the spear of course are also traditional samurai weapons. Good against mounted opponents, especially the naginata.

[Potatoman]

Pocus, can you explain why they should be more expensive? In terms of magic paths, 7 for 310 and 4 for 200 is actually a pretty poor cost/magic ratio when you compare it standard mages of the other nations.

Mahotsukai Master: 7 magic levels, 310 gold. High Stats, sacred.
Mahotsukai Adept: 4 levels, 200 gold. High stats, sacred.

Compare to a sampling of other national mages:[list] Jotun Skratti: 5 magic levels, 250 gold, giant level hp, very high stats.
Dwarven Smith: 4 levels, 180 gold. High stats, smithing bonus?
Arco Mystic: 5 levels, 180 gold. Low stats.
Theurg: 180 gold, 5.5 levels (counting priest levels as half). Standard stats. Sacred.
Arch Theurg: 380 gold, 9 levels. High stats. Sacred.
Marshmaster (C'tis miasma): 280 gold, 7 levels. Low stats.
Royal Navigator (Marignon CotS): 200 gold, 5 levels.
Pan: 350 gold, 6 magic paths, attracts maenads, giant level hp, recuperation, high stats.
Crone of Avalon: 230 gold, 6 paths. Low stats, sacred.

I was actually considering lowering the prices for Ashikaga's mages by 10-30 gold.

The encumberance slip has been noted and changed along with the hooves and #mounted problems.

[ January 30, 2004, 18:11: Message edited by: Potatoman ]

It also depends on the strength of the mages in the nation itself, are they capital only and so on.

The mages I feel are about where they need to be for what they bring to the nation (2 in 3 Paths and a random, thus they are great searchers, have good path picks.

Sacred Mages also take special consideration because of Blessing Effects.

[Saber Cherry]

Sacred mages have half upkeep, and should generally cost about 70% more than a similar non-sacred mage, IMO. Mages with higher levels in fewer paths should also cost more than mages with lower levels in many paths, for the same number of total levels. That's one reason I consider Celestial Masters overpriced, even though they are sacred; they are spread too thin to be useful in any path. If they had 2 linked randoms it might be OK.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Two things about the Japanese longbow and Armor threads:

1. The armor was much better than many are giving it credit for. It was mostly composite laminate--very lightweight and very very strong. This stuff was easily the equal of heavy chainmail--with less encumbrance. Definitely not the equal of plate or full plate though.

2. The world's longest bows also had the world's longest arrows. This means that a 42KG draw (~100 lbs) would propel the arrow for longer than an equivalent English Longbow--so it actually had higher velocities, could travel longer distances, and hit harder.

I'd also like to clear up the ideas people have as to the awkwardness of the bow--nope, not awkward. The asymmetrical location of the grip makes it easy to use, even when mounted. Additionally, the reason the bow rotates around the wrist is because the bow is slightly off kilter to counter bow-arrow torque and provide higher accuracy. A good release will rotate the bow around the wrist.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Sacred mages have half upkeep, and should generally cost about 70% more than a similar non-sacred mage, IMO.

70%?!! Why? Sacred can be useful, but not so much so to almost double the cost of the unit. Also, a lot of players will use their mages primarily as researchers and this would severely hamper trying to build up a strong research base quickly. At 200/310 gold, the Ashikaga mages are already quite pricey. I'm not saying they aren't worth the 200/310, just that they aren't worth more than that. IMO.