"War of the Ring" thread - Page 6

JaydedOne · #51 April 23rd, 2004, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Themes was not as easy to change as I thought. I'm not sure what JK's opinion is, but he said it would be a bit of a bother.

Here's something I don't get -- aside from obviously coded effects specific to themes (like destructive domain), don't you pretty much replicating the creation of a theme every time you mod a nation? In theory, I could, given enough typing and use of Photoshop, remake Last of the Tuatha for Man as a mod if IW decided tomorrow it shouldn't exist anymore. I couldn't force anyone to take certain scales (although it could be recommended in the design doc) and I couldn't set up a design point price (which, admittedly, might be a shortcoming if trying to create better-than-average themes which required balancing) but I could alter heroes, change out selectable units, offer different starting sites, etc.

Is there some other way to end-around theme creation by basically setting up mod commands to force certain scales or design point costs (perhaps just increasing cost for all Pretenders for that mod nation), effectively jury-rigging themes even if the mod name itself doesn't appear as a "selectable" theme?

What other issues am I forgetting? Are any of these ideas workable?

Gateway103 · #52 April 23rd, 2004, 09:04 PM

Perhaps one can make Sauron a nation-specific immobile pretedner with only 1 misc slot, and give this nation (probably ermor) a special transformation spell castable only by Sauron with The Ring.

Say perhaps Sauron is the only one with 8 Death magic (restrict death gem to Mordor only?), and he'll need the ring to give him +2 Death to be able to cast the transformation spell.

Problem is that you have to make sure he can't empower himself or boost his death level via items, which entail item and site editing. Or if possible, edit the cost to empower him in death to 999 gems or greater, which effectively negates the possibility (don't think this is possible right now).

Although that doesn't limit empowering of other mages... And this would only work for human player... I doubt the AI will give the Ring to Sauron if it can get it...

Just some not very useful thoughts...

-Gateway103

gladestrider · #53 April 24th, 2004, 12:59 AM

Interesting discussion. A big thanks to whoever bumped it up.

For what it's worth, I did this:

(1) Took the ME map that was announced on this forum Last month.

(2) Modded the map to support two players: Gondor/Iron Hills/Rivendell and Mordor/Isengard/North Mirkwood. I had originally planned to do a 6-player mod with those 6 nations, but I play mostly SP so I haven't been motivated.

I have a handful (not all) of the characters assigned to various starting points. Shelob is in her spot, as is Treebeard. I also put in Smaug and the Balrog, just for fun. Hmm, The Watcher in the Lake (at the back door to Moria) is there, plus the Necromancers in Dol-Guldor (I think that's what it's called).

(3) I modded the nations of Man and Ermor to Gondor and Mordor (respectively), rebuilt their recruitable unit lists to include elves, dwarves, and men for Gondor and Uruk-hai, Orcs (and wargs), and Trolls for Mordor. All of the units are existing units that have been modded, as opposed to units with new graphics (I didn't want to bother with artwork yet.)

I intended to make Sauron the creature (Moloch? I can't remember) that looks like a big flame and mod it to make it immobile, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

The Ringwraiths are all granted via the map file--they are not recruitable, but they are immortal. Frankly, they're turning out to be dirty bastards, so some tuning is in order there.

Note: Nothing is more refreshing that capturing a province with an army of hobbits.

The units need a lot of tuning, but it's moving along. If anyone ever does any artwork (even if it's just banners), I would appreciate it if they'd share.

Please keep the ideas flowing!

PS. JK or K, I would really like a way to override the #poptype recruiting lists for a province. In other words, I'd like to clear out the #poptype list and build my own, so I can put Ents in Fanghorn, Elves in Lorien, Rohirrim in Rohan, etc., like this:

#clearpoptype
#addreccom "Goblin Warg Chief"
#addrecunit "Goblin Warg Rider"
#addrecunit "Goblin Arrow Fodder"

As it is, the "fortress recruit list" for each nation is huge and I have to exercise discipline to not recruit them where they shouldn't be (Captains of Gondor in the Iron Hills, Elves in Gondor, Uruk-Hai in Mirkwood, etc.)

gs

HotNifeThruButr · #54 April 24th, 2004, 05:53 AM

Nice, ambitious mod

Anyways, the head is Baphomet

Kristoffer O · #55 April 24th, 2004, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Miguel Duran:
Here's something I don't get -- aside from obviously coded effects specific to themes (like destructive domain), don't you pretty much replicating the creation of a theme every time you mod a nation? In theory, I could, given enough typing and use of Photoshop, remake Last of the Tuatha for Man as a mod if IW decided tomorrow it shouldn't exist anymore. I couldn't force anyone to take certain scales (although it could be recommended in the design doc) and I couldn't set up a design point price (which, admittedly, might be a shortcoming if trying to create better-than-average themes which required balancing) but I could alter heroes, change out selectable units, offer different starting sites, etc.

Is there some other way to end-around theme creation by basically setting up mod commands to force certain scales or design point costs (perhaps just increasing cost for all Pretenders for that mod nation), effectively jury-rigging themes even if the mod name itself doesn't appear as a "selectable" theme?

What other issues am I forgetting? Are any of these ideas workable?

You are correct. A mod is much like replicating a theme. What people would like (theme modding) is the possibility to make a theme that is not replacing the default nation. Currently everyone knows that you are playing a mod. This is of course only a problem in MP games.

If you are making a scenario you can fix scales of a particular nation in the map file.

Endoperez · #56 April 24th, 2004, 09:11 PM

How much does it cost to empower someone from Death-8 to, say, Death-10? Or D-11? If it is insane amounts of death gems, it is almost impossible.

Random thoughts:
What effects would The Ring give to its wielder? Horror Marked is not very good, although that could simulate the attacks of RingWraiths quite well... They wouldn't be the same ones, though.
Those weapons should be cause disease, BTW, not decay. And Rivendell should have some healers.

One big problem is the fact that Ring can be destroyed - after that it could be forged again, and that is not what we want. One solution would be to make it need awesome amounts of Death magic, 10 or 12 or something. Then someone, maybe one of the Elves, would have that much magic and a forge-bonus of 100. No-one in Ermor would be able to forge it without empowering a lot.

If all Death spells were unaccesiible by research, good nations could find Death sites and would convert "the evil power" to do good under their will. Mordor would start with the spells they would be able to use... Only Sauron should be able to cast their better spells.

Some ideas my tired mind came up with. Ignore them if you don't like them, but I would like to get some comments.

Taqwus · #57 April 24th, 2004, 10:29 PM

Empowerment cost is 50 gems/slaves to get level 1, 30 + (15 * (current_level-1)) thereafter.
Hence, to empower from level 8 to level 9 costs 30 + 7*15 = 135, then it's 150 for level 10, and 165 for level 11.

With Death magic, you should note that boosters exist for every slot except feet.
The most powerful death weapon is the 40-gem 1-hd unique Sceptre for +3 death; unique and non-unique 2-hd staves provide 1. A Skull Cap boosts by 1 for 20 gems. A Robe of the Archmage boosts all paths incl death by 1 for something like 80 blood slaves and a horror mark. Misc items that boost include rings of sorcery and wizardry (+1 each), and the Big Black Book of Secrets (Death and Blood Magic for Dummies, +1 each).

Gateway103 · #58 April 25th, 2004, 02:31 AM

Yeah, but Sauron is an eye, I don't see him haveing any slot except maybe a misc. slot to hold the Ring

[edit: I was mistaken about the empowerment cost]

-Gateway103

[ April 25, 2004, 19:30: Message edited by: Gateway103 ]

limbo · #59 October 22nd, 2004, 05:04 PM

hello there!
this is something i`ve been waiting for. a Lotr-mod.
here is a link to civ3 forum, a thread i have been following for nearly a year (or 2). it`s a lotr mod for civ3. i believe that you will find lots of usefull information of units and nations from there. believe me when i tell you, that those guys have done lots of research.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96409

i hope the link works.
btw, can you script item so that it would be lost in the province where carrier were slain? and then some unfortunate gobyer would find it again? like the time that isildur (was it isildur?) fell i the river, and years after smeagul found the ring.

-limbo

edit: i took a second look to dates.. is this mod still active?

Truper · #60 October 22nd, 2004, 05:45 PM

The mod never was active, to my knowledge. Keir disappeared from these Boards many months ago, and without completing the mod.

There is always a chance that a magic item will be found by a commander on the victorious side after a battle, but you cannot ensure that it will be found.

Yes, it was Isildur that lost the Ring.