OberFuhrer, the Hobourg Special Hero!!!

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Boron:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cainehill:
Not sure you can blame it on the Allies, given that Japan didn't wind up the same way.

not to forget italy , finland , bulgaria ... .
but the most important point is that 1. none of these did as evil war crimes as germany and
2. none of these nations had decent enough techs to be a real threat .

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You haven't studied your 20th century history if you think that Japan didn't commit war crimes just as evil as Germany's. The fact that it was mostly against the Chinese, Koreans, Russians and Philipines simply means that it didn't get the publicity Germany's did in the Western world.

Also I find it odd that you put Finland in the same Category as Germany, Italy, and Japan - heck, France did more to help Germany than Finland did.

[PrinzMegaherz]

You haven't studied your 20th century history if you think that Japan didn't commit war crimes just as evil as Germany's. The fact that it was mostly against the Chinese, Koreans, Russians and Philipines simply means that it didn't get the publicity Germany's did in the Western world.

Also I find it odd that you put Finland in the same Category as Germany, Italy, and Japan - heck, France did more to help Germany than Finland did.

Not to forget the war crimes commited by England and Amerika.

Even though the winners write history, Hiroshima was and is a warcrime.

After germany had surrendered, brittish bomber squads wiped out the whole city of Dresden, killing about 202.040 civilians, mostly women and children in the process, without reason. The war was already over.

Edit
Funny Note: Most of the english pilots have been told there was a chemical factory producing weapons of mass destruction in Dresden.

[ July 17, 2004, 08:07: Message edited by: PrinzMegaherz ]

[atul]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Also I find it odd that you put Finland in the same Category as Germany, Italy, and Japan - heck, France did more to help Germany than Finland did.

Well, might have something to do with the fact that while France was under occupation Finland was fighting one of the Allies (Russia) alongside Axis.

Finland was originally given to Russia by Germany with that Ribbentrop (something like that) treaty that split eastern Europe between the two nations, so bar some volunteers Finland was pretty much alone in the first war (39-40) against Russia, IIRC. But as Germany opened the eastern front, in we went as allies (German troops were in charge for actions in northern Finland, actually) to our second war against Russia. When Finnish troops crossed pre-39 borders, at least GB declared war to them.

So I'd say Finland had a place in that list - not because it had a big impact but because of the side it took. And as to mentality as a nation, I'd think every nation has had to deal this thing in their own way. I know Finnish society is still affected, although not in a so visible way as German, and without knowing too much about Japan they even now have that 'self defence force' (don't know the correct term) instead of army.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Really? Im go have to look into that. I really miss Car Wars.

Me too. Now that I think about it, maybe that's why I went to play Dominions? I miss my ol' tramplin' trailer truck so bad!

[Demosthenes]

http://www.sjgames.com/car-wars/

[Demosthenes]

ARGH! [wtf]

[ July 17, 2004, 16:37: Message edited by: Demosthenes ]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
Not to forget the war crimes commited by England and Amerika.

Even though the winners write history, Hiroshima was and is a warcrime.

After germany had surrendered, brittish bomber squads wiped out the whole city of Dresden, killing about 202.040 civilians, mostly women and children in the process, without reason. The war was already over.

Edit
Funny Note: Most of the english pilots have been told there was a chemical factory producing weapons of mass destruction in Dresden.

Come on, if you're going to make comments on historical issues, make some vague attempt to get your facts right.

Dresden was bombed on February 13th 1945, three months before the German surrender. Estimates of deaths are difficult to make for various reasons, but modern historians and researchers tend to range from approx 30,000 to 130,000. I've never seen a number over 200,000 except from Nazi propoganda and David Irving.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boron:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Not sure you can blame it on the Allies, given that Japan didn't wind up the same way.

not to forget italy , finland , bulgaria ... .
but the most important point is that 1. none of these did as evil war crimes as germany and
2. none of these nations had decent enough techs to be a real threat .

---

You haven't studied your 20th century history if you think that Japan didn't commit war crimes just as evil as Germany's. The fact that it was mostly against the Chinese, Koreans, Russians and Philipines simply means that it didn't get the publicity Germany's did in the Western world.

Also I find it odd that you put Finland in the same Category as Germany, Italy, and Japan - heck, France did more to help Germany than Finland did.

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i just listed all axis

yeah you are right japan did very evil warcrimes too but what i wanted to state why they weren't "weighted" as evil as the german ones although they of course were as evil as the german ones is the following reason :
japan could have never conquered the world the maximum what japan could have done would have been perhaps conquer greater parts of china and invade australia .
while germany had on the one hand fearful weopons : me 262 , panther , king tiger ...
and the most important fact : germany was close to develop an atom bomb too and that would really have been evil since hitler would have surely used it .
so german needed to be finished earlier .

to make a dominion comparision :
if you face ermor and pangenea CW you try to finish of first ermor since they are more dangerous . same with germany and japan in world war 2

[Demosthenes]

Originally posted by Boron:
to make a dominion comparision :
if you face ermor and pangenea CW you try to finish of first ermor since they are more dangerous . same with germany and japan in world war 2

Maybe Ulm and T'ien Chi would be better parallels.

[PrinzMegaherz]

Come on, if you're going to make comments on historical issues, make some vague attempt to get your facts right.

Dresden was bombed on February 13th 1945, three months before the German surrender. Estimates of deaths are difficult to make for various reasons, but modern historians and researchers tend to range from approx 30,000 to 130,000. I've never seen a number over 200,000 except from Nazi propoganda and David Irving.

Hm, before I posted this, I checked some links for information about this topic. Although the were german weppages, I doubt that any of them had any nazi background.

there were 600.000 civilians inside the city, around 300.000 bombs were dropped, und you really want to tell me there were only 30.000 casualties?

And even 3 months before germany's surrender it was clear who would win the war.

Mark, I see that you live in london, and I dont want you to understand my posting as an personal affront against english people. But this was a war, and there are soldiers on every side who enjoy doing evil. Just think about the americans in Iraque. Even though most surely have good intentions, there are black sheeps, like those in the prison.