Dealing with an early N9 E9 Niefel Giant rush

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by Epaminondas

I agree with a lot of your suggestions, except the Fire Blessed sacreds solution. A Niefel Giant with a N8 Bless will regenerate something like 10 hps per round. I just don't see how some of your suggested sacreds of Mictlan or Lanka can overcome this in 2-3 rounds (before they become fatigued out with cold aura).

As I said: ... if combined with other options these nations have.
We are talking about Nifel rush so key battle(s) will take place in warm provinces. The sacreds of both Lanka and Mictlan will deal good amount of damage against lower def, prot and weaker cold aura of the Giants.
Lanka will bring undead chaff to the battle. Mictlan, as Chris mentioned above, will have advantage in numbers.
Fire blees alone is not enough to stop Nifelheim but Lanka and Mictlan are far from defenseless.
_

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Falkor

We are talking about Nifel rush so key battle(s) will take place in warm provinces. The sacreds of both Lanka and Mictlan will deal good amount of damage against lower def, prot and weaker cold aura of the Giants.
Lanka will bring undead chaff to the battle. Mictlan, as Chris mentioned above, will have advantage in numbers.
Fire blees alone is not enough to stop Nifelheim but Lanka and Mictlan are far from defenseless.
_

Yet, are also considered some of the strongest contenders in EA. What about Tir 'na n'Og? Maybe Abysia? Kailasa? Marverni? For most nations, the ability to stop a strong Niefel rush has nothing to do with bless troops, but a reliance on researched magic, or nothing.

[chrispedersen]

I'll give you two hints from my book of stop niefle rushes.

Blight.
Bow of botulf.

[HoneyBadger]

Cursing + afflicting doesn't immediately stop them, but it will gradually but permanently sap their strength, and should get them looking for an easier target. The fact is, with a tough, determined Niefelheim targeting you in the early game, you're going to suffer some losses. They're giants! they smash things good!

[Nikelaos]

just tried in SP

Agartha seems to pwn giant bless rush, magma children are ridiculously cheap and a few of them can fell the giants in no time.

pity agartha ain't amazing vs other nations

[Epaminondas]

Originally Posted by Nikelaos

just tried in SP

Agartha seems to pwn giant bless rush, magma children are ridiculously cheap and a few of them can fell the giants in no time.

pity agartha ain't amazing vs other nations

Hmmm, I will have to try the Magma Children route. I just tried 33 E9N8 Bless Niefel Giants v. 78 E9N6F9 Agartha Seal Guards. The results? Zero Niefel Giant casualties, all 78 Seal Guards dead within a few rounds. This is really farcical; no national unit can remotely challenge the Niefel Giants in head-to-head combat, because of the horrendous Cold Aura effect. The Seal Guards had may be 2 turns of swings each before they froze and were thus rendered ineffective...

I've tested the other big guns against Niefel Giants, and even the Hinnom giants didn't last very long and took very few Niefel Giants down.

[Agema]

Originally Posted by Epaminondas

Hmmm, I will have to try the Magma Children route. I just tried 33 E9N8 Bless Niefel Giants v. 78 E9N6F9 Agartha Seal Guards. The results? Zero Niefel Giant casualties, all 78 Seal Guards dead within a few rounds. This is really farcical; no national unit can remotely challenge the Niefel Giants in head-to-head combat, because of the horrendous Cold Aura effect. The Seal Guards had may be 2 turns of swings each before they froze and were thus rendered ineffective...

I've tested the other big guns against Niefel Giants, and even the Hinnom giants didn't last very long and took very few Niefel Giants down.

I ran two battles against Nief giants (N9E6) as Agartha (F6W9N4) in a newbie MP game. I got rushed about turn 10, and fought a battle with numerical advantage (about 30 v 15) in my heat-2 Dom. The quickened Seal Guards and Ancient Ones dealt more damage than the Niefs could regenerate and I won comfortably. However, I fought a second battle later (about 40 v 25-30) and no heat, and my army was crushed with I think just one dead Nief.

I would certainly say that Magma Children might be a much better route for Agartha against Nief, although I never got my little burny ones into combat with them.

[Nikelaos]

indeed alot of nations stand no chance aainst neifelheim,

but many can though they may have some troubled, tir nan og can raid them into economic depression(as can any nation with stleath troops), abysia have the dominion and lots of fire to keep neifel out of their dominion. Agartha can hold them off via seal guards (more of a meat sheild than anything) and magma children.

has anyone tried researching panic? only n2 and a few mages casting that may force neifel to rout, and with neifel's rushes tending to head straight towards you're capital leaving 1 rout back you could take the province behind them and have them possibly rout to their deaths?

haven't tried how effective panic is but it's worth testing.

[hunt11]

Don't know about the other ones, but Abysia is Niefelham's worst nightmare, full heat scales, heat aura (no idea what the proper name is), and powerful fire mages.

[JimMorrison]

But in the early game when you've not researched any heavy evocations? Your dominion hasn't spread much, as Abysia has little need for a "high" dominion? You have a low troop count because your troops are so resource intensive?

Likewise, Blight isn't going to stop a true first year rush, and unlikely many people are ready to make Bows of Botulf in the first year - besides both of those are reliant on Death magic access, which still leaves Tir, Kailasa, and Marverni out, among others.....