Guide: The Artifact Tier List

[sector24]

If you want to improve the quality of a guide, you should contact the author. Second best would be leaving a comment on the talk page. A distant third is editing their work in a significant way without their knowledge or consent. There are more and less polite ways to go about implementing change, and I think most if not all authors are open to having their work improved upon, but getting their consent goes a long way.

[Sajuuk]

Agreed, if its a cbm version guide, then it should be labeled, and its better to put vanilla version on the main page rather than cbm version. But it is really impolite to foundamentally change others work as Omikron did, he should create his own page, and I'm sure people will support his version eventually~

As for the rank of this list, I'm sure there will be much controversy, but no need to change list until a conclusion has been made......Unless there are something everyone missed

I think Sceptre of Dark Regency is overrated, because it is not irreplaceable like other tier 1 items(or can't be replaced massively at least).

Magic lamp, well, its kinda useless since everyone might take it away from you anytime....But its path just too good, so someone might find a way to keep it for himself. A standard method is wish lamp after summon djinn, or vice versa. Either way, your enemy will have to kill your djinn or wish it rather than just forge a lamp, for the djinn will only disappear in the turn the "summon djinn" casted. A lower cost method which mummify djinn are nolonger accessible in 3.24, but you can still get its path by invest vast amount of D gems, you know how Anyway, the rate of magic lamp are debatable, depend on how much you want it.

Crown of the Ivy King can be a least version of soul stone, in time it will provide considerable chaff. But it is fair to put it into tier 3, though.

Igor Könhelm's Tome are surely underestimated IMHO. Yeah it give storm power 5 which will be really useful for SCs, but like Crown of the Ivy King, it can be used in a better way. combine with a lightning rod, you can summon 14 corpse construct with 1 A, its pretty easy to mass hundreds of lightning immune 14MR walking dead that can be further buffed,though certain path is needed. So its not totally suck isn't it?

Sword of Justice&Injustice: As Corinthian mentioned, its really useful for those bless nation with only H2 or even H1(Hinnom), one prophet is surely not enough. Btw, did sword of injustice really cast Protection of the Sepulchre?

O'al Kan's Sceptre is AN damage, plus small area stun with some 20+ fatigue damage,can't say its totally useless.

[archaeolept]

yeah, Igor's tome isn't bad. so much chaff for so cheap is always welcome.

[TheConway]

The whole CBM/Vanilla argument is pretty immaterial. The point is, we wrote it from the perspective of CBM, and would like to keep it that way. If Omnikron or someone else wants to make their own artifact guide for vanilla I couldn't care less. It would probably be an excellent idea.
Anyways, the majority of his contributions, the item-specific strategy advice, have been added back in on the individual items' pages, which are probably the best places anyway.

[Edi]

sector24 does have a good point, especially given that the Dom3 wiki community is small enough to make that kind of courtesy viable. Such an approach is not required, but it is recommended.

However, mostly what happens at other sites does not, or should not, concern this forum. I would much prefer it if disputes related to the Dom3 wiki stayed on the Dom3 wiki instead of spilling over to this forum.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Edi

However, mostly what happens at other sites does not, or should not, concern this forum. I would much prefer it if disputes related to the Dom3 wiki stayed on the Dom3 wiki instead of spilling over to this forum.

What?

This dom3 community is a cluster of several sites and services, of which this forum is one leg. There's the wiki, dom3mods, llamaserver, dom3minions, shrapnel forums and the IRC channel. (Tell me if I missed any.) They not only concern each other, they're part of the same whole. Trying to keep them from "spilling over" into each other is a fools errand.

In this case, where the intention was to open a public debate concerning the wiki page, the fora is a more efficient communication tool than the wiki, as it will reach more people faster.

[Edi]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

What?

This dom3 community is a cluster of several sites and services, of which this forum is one leg. There's the wiki, dom3mods, llamaserver, dom3minions, shrapnel forums and the IRC channel. (Tell me if I missed any.) They not only concern each other, they're part of the same whole. Trying to keep them from "spilling over" into each other is a fools errand.

In this case, where the intention was to open a public debate concerning the wiki page, the fora is a more efficient communication tool than the wiki, as it will reach more people faster.

What I mean is that ideally events at one site should not cause undue uproar here. Not that everything is hermetically sealed.

In this case, page edits at the Dom3Wiki are causing a flamewar here, which is exactly the kind of thing I mean. If people want to discuss the merits of a different list of things or such on the wiki, by all means they are welcome to do so. In an appropriately civil manner. If that standard can't be met, that particular discussion gets shut down.

It is a further demerit in the record of the people engaging in flaming that a Wiki by its very nature is a publicly editable resource and things cannot be expected to stay static. This applies even to radical alterations, though as pointed out, in a community this small, the courtesy of asking an original active author about it beforehand is not an especially onerous task.

If we want to take a different hypothetical example, if people were saying less than friendly things about me elsewhere (say, the stardestroyer.net or heavengames.com forums), that's still not going to affect how I interact them with here. However, if a flamewar over something started at one of those places or somewhere else migrated here, then it would become an issue on this forum and other moderators would need to deal with it.

In this respect, the Dom3Wiki, Dom3Mods, the IRC channel and other venues that form the aggregate larger community of Dominions 3, are separate from this forum. And in this respect they should stay separate.

Does that make my position clearer?

[13lackGu4rd]

the main problem with your arguments here is that the entire wikipedia, of all its subsites, is built upon the simple concept of mutual public, somewhat anonymous, public work with disregard to credits. the dom3wiki did have credits, especially for the guides posted in it, but that was a diversion from the other wikis rather than the standard.

if you want your work to be credited to you, and not edited without your concent than don't post it on a wiki, post it on a forum or even upload it as a file like maps and mods.

[Gandalf Parker]

I agree that the community is a community of many sites. And Edi would be within moderator rights to request that any of those sites handle its problems away from here if he feels it detracts from the friendly supportive feel that the forum is meant to embody.

BUT I think that does NOT get to apply to the Wiki. In fact, of the list of sites that people have mentioned its just about the ONLY thing listed that cannot be requested to be fought elsewhere. There are multiple instances of Shrapnel owners and staff referring to the wiki as apparently the Official Dom3 Wiki. There are numerous instances of them pitching it both here and in articles around the net. I was surprised when they did it and would not have recommended it. But they did do that.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44186
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=174819056976

As to the discussion here, Im just a participant having fun.
But if I were to try and mediate it to a close I might point out things like the definition of Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki
or maybe lch's definition of this particular wiki
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44152
both of which seem to specifically cover the situation that occurred.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

the main problem with your arguments here is that the entire wikipedia, of all its subsites, is built upon the simple concept of mutual public, somewhat anonymous, public work with disregard to credits. the dom3wiki did have credits, especially for the guides posted in it, but that was a diversion from the other wikis rather than the standard.

if you want your work to be credited to you, and not edited without your concent than don't post it on a wiki, post it on a forum or even upload it as a file like maps and mods.

I'm not sure whose arguments you're talking about, but I mostly agree with you anyhow.