MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Not too much off topic I think more information that some players might find useful in game play concerning tactics a very real possibility of a set of or one scenario for the folks that like doing that kind of thing concerning what would end up as a fighting withdrawal of Ukrainian forces. In any case a very good analysis of the Battle of Debal’tseve.

Also a multi use battle analysis of CRUSADER & GAZLALA.

Article on the future of our armor most surprising is where the use of the M113 is projected to be still in service.

Again possibly for the scenario types and from a tactics prospective, "The Role of Reconnaissance Forces in the Counterattack" they even offer one (Scenario) for "food for thought" but use two case studies and break them down and compare the two. They are, Case Study 1: Task Force Kean’s counterattack, 1950 Situation: North Korean attack & Case Study 2: Sharon’s
counterattack, 1973 Situation: Egyptian and Syrian attack.

There is more on armor tactics etc.
http://www.benning.army.mil/armor/eA...17_edition.pdf
http://www.benning.army.mil/armor/eARMOR/

So you thought I would post something other than the real deal!?!
I think I'll keep the second one myself.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well these are FYI as well as updates which will require some minor adjustments. My part for these first two tanks started back with the 2010/2011 Patch Campaign first dealing as a "CHANGE" submission for/to the ALTAY (That was entered in as the South Korean K2 as it was Turkeys plan to buy them from South Korea at the time.) and the ARJUN Mk II for India as an "ADD" that was designed as a much improved version of the ARJUN. But DRADO and the Indian Army just don't get along. The ARJUN completely "destroyed" the Russian tanks and others held in service. The army fearing embarrassment, completely withdraw all their T-72 variants before it started and their best tank the very up to date T-90S didn't stand a chance. Both these tanks have had a series of delays which even after we made some changes in dates mostly, are both going to have to see changes in them again among a couple of other minor changes. Let's begin...

1. TURKEY/ALTAY/UNIT 614/CHANGE/START DATE JUN 2018 VICE JUN 2017.// Well the issue again for this tank is the engine. There have been others in the past but this has been the "big one". What simply happened much like with India was the transfer of technology. South Korea wasn't all about it if you will concerning the more advanced technologies involved. K2 was out. They settled a % is still S. Korean the rest was "Turkey first thinking". So S. Korea was out followed by Japan, Austria, themselves throughout and it seems settled with the Ukraine. It appears full production will start sometime in May 2017.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._11204173.html
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...nk-engine-tech
http://www.armyrecognition.com/turke...ctures_uk.html

2. INDIA/ARJUN Mk II/UNITS 022 & 023/CHANGE/START DATE JAN 2020 VICE JAN 2017.// The dates are the priority as there are some other changes to come as well concerning the LAHAT which has been ongoing, they just can't seem to get it to work with the MG & FCS over the last 8 years or so. Suppositely they have had a successful launch using a new ATGW developed by or with the Ukraine. I feel I've spent a "lifetime" dealing with these tanks. I guess it's only appropriate since it ONLY took 30 years from conception to the Mk I to get a tank fielded.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2015/...ia-spurns.html
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2015/...osal-sets.html
http://www.defencenews.in/article/Th...ttle-Tank-3787
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._81004172.html
http://www.janes.com/article/67714/a...or-arjun-mk-ii
http://www.armyrecognition.com/india...elligence.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/india...elligence.html

Welcome to my world which granted is much smaller then Andy's or Don's but all the same sometimes, still a PITA.

All the usual factors involved here development, production, distribution, standing up of units and training them in my decision tree for the above.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

You will see this in the SPA/SPAA & North Korean Threads as well. I've been waiting for this data to come out since last Friday. Couldn't tell if the Pokpung-ho was mounting a new double barrelled MG or if it was a Grenade Launcher now that question has been answered. Did some work on this OOB a few years back with Don and the "resident" expert on the subject Marcello. We've had some "interesting" discussions ourselves but, I have always respected his opinions. Don't know what's happened to him but, he made me better when I first decided to start posting out here going back to the start of my MRAP Thread. It will be posted where this belongs but first I need them in my working threads. These are mostly I think minor change issues to existing (Copy) units.

Any information from a reliable source as this is worth it's weight in gold when it concerns North Korea.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._11704172.html

Regards,
Pat

[luigim]

http://www.strategic-culture.org/new...vice-2017.html

Hot news and cool photo of the new model

[DRG]

Of course we've had a "BV" model in the OOB's since 1985
I guess this will be the T-80BV-U ( upgrade )

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Got some tank news...

Poland...
Several months back I reported on the possibility of Poland getting a Light - Med. tank (Since the named GEPARD.) and them maybe updating the PT-91 (w/Ukraine). For the former it's not looking so good in it's dead (ANDER's all over again some may remember.) and the latter it's off the drawing boards and looks like it's on. Once modernized the tank will be designated the PT-16. We also have an early look at it in ref. 3 below.
http://www.defence24.com/604670,poli...ead-of-gepard#
http://www.defence24.com/598836,poli...-an-abrupt-end
http://armyrecognition.com/poland_po...res_video.html

Germany... I'm coming to appreciate this site as of late and there's good information here on where Germany is headed and likely Poland as mentioned above.
http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspo...provments.html

Finally I do track things for sometime...
Russia... As already noted.
http://www.janes.com/article/65580/r...nks-to-service

I feel this will happen it's been awful quite on the Russian front concerning the T-14 and given all the pomp n circumstance that has thus far proceeded this tank and the above news about the T-80 this should bode as "a cautionary tale" for you ARMATA enthusiasts. Remember the Russian once they started operating the T-80 didn't even like the tank. It did get better after they got rid of the turbo-charged engine but only by degrees.

A bonus night with CINCLANTHOME and since I re-certified today I'm ready to save lives again!! CPR-First Aid anyone!?! Anyone!?!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The next site is a little more interested in carrying and tracking the type stories shown below more so then any of the several ones I use on a regular basis.

The first story again, backs others from this site and a couple of others I've posted over the past year. Based on this mounting and consistent documentation and of course my "humble" opinion, I feel at this point and time we have enough to support a more realistic operational service date for the T-14 ARMATA. Currently the Russian T-14 UNIT 170 has an in service date of 6/2018, we've known this was subject to change for sometime, I believe that time is in the next patch. It will take at least a year or more of operational testing/training and production before this MBT is fully operational. I recommend a "tightening" of the date as follows: 6/2020.

As a reminder to everyone as I tracked it that long, India's ARJUN took years before it was operational. I'm not comparing India's issues with ARJUN to Russia's with the ARMATA, but again, they're also having developmental and production issues with their tank that still need to be worked out. And ask yourselves, if everything was alright, why bring back the T-80 which they really didn't care for in the first place? But they are as posted here by myself and others as a "stop gap" until it's ready. Anyway another article "to add to the pile"...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_..._12106174.html

Support for the question...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/septe..._11109161.html
http://www.janes.com/article/65580/r...nks-to-service

And we'll know for sure because this is the other thing they do better on a consistent basis than anyone else to date...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_..._22306173.html

Just some more food for thought, though speaking for myself I'm getting full. And you know what happens when you eat too much... You !!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I hope you'll humor me to some extent with the following.This exercise is another example of the issues that Don and I just love to deal with when it comes to new equipment.

So by the numbers if you will and this will be the short version as long as you remember we've already had some mileage "down the road" with this MBT prior to 1) below...

1) I would respectfully ask you to visit Post 632/Item 1 and read it.

2) Of course you would do well to read all of the REF. below if your interested in this MBT or the development and procurement of such equipment. But, for the sake of this exercise, and for context, please go to the following section CONTRACTS and KEY EVENTS 2016-2017.

3) Read the April 13/17 entry first.

4) Now read the June 16/17 entry. I have provided below as REF 2 the highlighted portion of this section. As a reminder with this site those highlighted portions link you to a source document.

And if you don't feel like it and you trust me enough here's just a quick break down of 1-4 above.

1) Discussed issues related to the development and production issues for this MBT with multiple refs to support the discussion. Conclusion was to push in service date back to JUN/2018 vice current in service date.

3) Bottom line "All is well!" with serial production to begin in MAY/2017 which makes the JUN 2018 in service date plausible.

4) Magically "All is not well!" and as it would turn out in REF 2. below the same issues I pointed out in POST 632 haven't been fully addressed and the news now is OTOKAR has lost the contract as the single source manufacturer of this MBT, so that Turkey in not accepting the bid, has opened it up to competition which they hope will be concluded by the end of this year.

Don sorry but, prudence now dictates an in service date of no sooner then JAN/2019 or maybe better APRIL/2019.

This is an example of ownership and followup when submitting equipment. Don can correct me and I have all my submissions but, I believe this was submitted by me about 4-5 years ago.

Anyway...
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...project-05012/
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...News%20Roundup

I'm trying hard to "gear up" but I have to be honest and say besides my personal issues at the time, this type of thing was a minor reason on top of everything else for my "vacation" in doing my submissions.

I can at this time easily and "for real" say-Don I have at least 20 pieces of new equipment for the following countries, this what it is, when they think it'll be in service, here's a ref or two and I even got you some good pictures to go with it.

And as we did a few years, I guarantee you at least five or more would need to be deleted. We've seen it here before.

Oh before I go found this earlier tonight from JANE'S this concerns Russian UNIT 879/BMPT. They are reporting that Russia cancelled the program. If you go with it you got at least one more slot back or more. Para 2 goes directly to the issue.
http://www.janes.com/article/71842/n...layed-in-syria

See what I mean?

JUST TRYING TO "STAY IN MY THREE FOOT WORLD".

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

YEAH BUT.........is this "new" BMPT actually in Russian service? I have serious doubts. I think they are looking for export customers and this thing fits well with what the Syrian could use right now......but if it doesn't have active ATGM measures it's just a nice shiney new target

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don, simply no on Russia. It's intended for the export market once they cancelled the program. Again from the article Kazakhstan is the only known user.

Given where it's displayed the "new" version (Developed in 2013.) BMPT-72 Terminator 2 it looks like Syria is intended as the possible second customer for the series. I can't think of a better place for a real world op eval at the moment. I'll be watching for developments.

I remember "we" had some discussion on this vehicle in the forum. I don't ever remember coming across anything saying it got canceled myself but, before I go I'm going to do a quick search.

Key words in Ref.1 Para. 1 are... "The BMPT is expected to enter service with the Russian Army during the next couple of years." Ref. 2 for FYI. Ref. 3 confirms/supports the "no go" on the BMPT as reported by JANE'S.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/bmpt.htm
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/bmpt_72.htm
https://sputniknews.com/military/201...ssia-new-tank/

Regards,
Pat