MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Need to get ready for bed but, quickly I hope with ZASLON there would be at least 4 launchers with 2 rounds each so minimum 8 total rounds. Again the way they've written it as I last posted, the launchers threat axis runs from 150-180 degrees of coverage. The round when "detonated" then is supposed to provide 360 protective coverage of the platform from in between the rocket or missile inbound and the platform. I can readily accept that a round fired from either the say the front left or rear left launcher would completely protect the platforms left side to include the deck and top turret. Or better using the same example, having "1/2 dome" covering the left side. I'm just not seeing a full 360 degree protective coverage over the platform.

I hope to get an answer from the source.

So how do you get around a treaty ban on cluster munitions? You develop weapons like STRIX, BONUS which the French are using with all their artillery now and precision guided rounds such as EXCALIBUR so in the case of the U.S. and a handful of others that didn't sign the CM ban treaty, "you can have your cake and eat it too!".

So essentially these are very fast and effective top attack weapons if you think about it. This is the reason so much of the
"hunter killer" sensors are using ballistic glass, are mounted in "armored" housing or recessed "within" the turret itself to allow for some side and overhead protection.

Industry has/is addressing these issues already for instance the ARMATA is supposed to have an operating system to counter the above threat when fielded. It will lead to a stalemate (Think about ATGW vs. these systems now, really no difference here. Some get through and some won't.) if you think of NLOS it's a multi-channel/multi-sensor munition just like BONUS. Even STRIX which is the "grandfather" of these systems out of the box was the same as NLOS etc. to lesser degree at the time.

In short yes artillery has gotten better than CM, a 155mm EXCALIBUR round is going to make for a bad day for a tank crew as it goes through a Commanders hatch.

Good hearing from you John and hope all is well.

Anyway back to work later this afternoon.

Regards,
Pat

[Imp]

Hi Pat all's well in my neck of the woods hope all is good with you, moving to the lakes in 6 months or so & forsaking city life completely.
Follow your posts just try not to comment in to often as mainly its an information thread.

[DRG]

The bottom line question would be ....... in an actual combat situation how many individual threats could the system deal with before running out of counter-measure ammo

[luigim]

Latest T72B3 modification:

Relikt side skirts and SLAT Armor added


http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2533332.html

It says "According to the previously published tender documents, the modification of the T-727B3 with additional protection should include:

Installation of the Sosna-U sight; The target tracking machine; Radio station R-168-25U-2 and a complex of software and hardware AVSKU; Guns of type 2А46М-5-01; Engine V-92S2F (1130 hp) with systems that ensure its operation; The display complex of the driver-mechanic and the rear-view television camera; Caterpillar belts with oblique grooves and driving wheels with improved cleanability; Onboard screens of the hull with integrated modules of dynamic protection of the "Relict" type and screened screens of the projection of the MTO hull; The recruitment of a single spare set of the kit's tank: additional dynamic protection modules in the "soft" casing, increasing the durability of the onboard projection of the hull to anti-tank cumulative means, with the possibility of their equipment and hinge under operating conditions; Dynamic protection modules and trellis screens of the tower, increasing its resistance to anti-tank cumulative means and installed instead of boxes of spare parts for the tower depending on the nature of the task; Refinement of the AZ providing use with products С-1 and С-2; Improvement of the Products in terms of providing anti-mine resistance, at which the specified activity is not performed.

Let us recall that the main designer of the NPK Uralvagonzavod Andrei Terlikov announced in June 2015 at the forum "Army-2015" about the creation of the T-72B3 variant with enhanced protection. "A new set of additional protection has been prepared for the new modification of the T-72B3," Terlikov said. - In the near future, this modification is planned to be launched into batch production. " According to Terlikov, the new modification of the T-72B3 also received a tank diesel engine with a capacity of 1130 hp. "The driver-mechanic received an automated control system that independently warns about injuries and accidents, and the commander's workplace is equipped with a panoramic sight," the representative of Uralvagonzavod added [in fact, the installation of a panoramic sight is not implemented on mass-modernized tanks. - bmpd]. "This modification proved itself from the best side," Terlikov stressed.

According to the information published in the open press, in 2015, NPK Uralvagonzavod received the first contract of the Russian Defense Ministry for major repairs with the modernization of 154 tanks of the T-72B type with reduction to the T-72BZ type with additional protection, with performance of works in 2015 -2017 years. The published documentation indicated that the contractor began to actually perform the work from October 1, 2015. According to the known information, the upgraded T-72BZ tanks with additional protection were started by surrender at the end of 2016.

On March 24, 2017, Reuters released a videotape showing the unloading in Pokrovsky (Rostov region) north of Taganrog near the Ukrainian border with the Russian Army echelon with upgraded T-72B3 tanks with additional protection."

https://twitter.com/mod_russia/statu...040512/photo/1

http://www.russiadefence.net/t963p37...n-and-variants


https://www.facebook.com/14922523243...type=3&theater

Official Russian MoD source: it says "Two dozens of T-72B3 modernized tanks have been introduced into the motorized rifle formation of the 1st tank army of the Western military district."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJdBvQhGPDs

Video near Ukrainian border.

This B3 Upgrade is real and alive..

[DRG]

What that looks like to me is what we have for unit 697 in the Russian OOB is very close with the exception of the start date exactly 2 years too soon based on when work actually started......though 10/16 seems to be a good enough date for actual service.......does that sound about right?

[luigim]

Unit 697 is very similar but without the addictional Relikt ERA and SLAT coverage..

So in Russian real life OOB there are 1st gen T72B3 ( with less protection) and 2nd gen T72B3 ( with added ERA and SLAT coverage) but without panoramic commander sight

and T72B3 with panoramic commander sight

but I suggest Deleting T72B2 Rogatka which is not in service

[DRG]

there are two kinds of ERA in the game basic using single digit numbers and advanced with double digit numbers....so 697 already has advanced ERA ratings.

panoramic commander sight isn't cover by the game

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

ZASLON Results: Well to say the very least a bit of a disappointment.

Mon July 10, 2017 8:55pm
From: Me
To: EDITED by request
Sir or Madam,
Good Morning! I just have a simple question concerning your ZASLON System. From having read your material, the following taken from your site caught my eye, "For detecting incoming threats, each round is fitted with a millimeter-wave radar sensor which continuously emits signals to 2.5m within an arc of 150o-180o in azimuth and -6o to +20o in elevation. Once a potential threat is detected, the system releases a dense cloud of fast-moving splinters in the trajectory path of the incoming threat, creating a 360o kill zone between the incoming threat and the host vehicle, while a backup munition is automatically deployed ready to fire once the first round is disposed of." It appears to me just for clarification, that if a launchers sensor picks up a inbound threat to the platform it will fire one round that will provide that platform with a full 360 degree splinter cloud to protect it. The second round in that launcher would act as a back up to any other threat basically from the same general area. So to summarize to counter an inbound threat/launcher fires one round/it disperses a 360 degree "splinter cloud"/it destroys the inbound threat. Is this correct? If it is you have I must say, a very impressive system. I'm doing a little research on APS type systems for a game/weapons online forum and I just wanted to verify I am interpreting your system information correctly. Hopefully you can answer and or clarify this for me as I wish to post accurate information concerning the ZASLON System as long as it does not violate any classified information about it.

Thank You for any assistance you can provide and I hope you have a GREAT Day!

Regards,
Pat Conklin USN/SS Ret.

No reply, maybe they think me a Russian spy? Who knows!?!

Given what we have and if we trust the manufacturers (Remember they are trying to sell this system as well.) information we simply have to say a tank would have a minimum of four launchers a tank is a "box" with four corners after-all.

Simply 4L x 2Ea = 8SC Shots. I believe the most shots any MBT has in the game is 3 in a EW rating for any defensive system onboard.

TROPHY I believe is at least an 8 shot system possibly as high as 12.

Do you see were this is heading? Some people every now and again will still complain about the artillery "routine" which has gotten much better over the years, but, can you imagine waiting on your tanks and those of your opponents going through the "tank defensive routine" on top of that? After all what's the, though much rarer, complaint? The game takes too long.

The "capper" here for me as well is that my "worthy" opponent AI has a distinct disadvantage that I enjoy especially since I believe in Logistics, it might wish it could enjoy it as well but, it can't.

I know (Or think I know.) very simply, that the supply routine will prioritize resupply my of main armament first based on a number of game conditions such as Suppression etc. etc.

Allowing for "game time" every MBT so equipped (EW) should have a minimum of 2 and no more then 4. I actually feel across the board 4 would be ideal as some of the aerosol system can get up to 12 or more shots RW. And as discussed above for a APS type system such again, as TROPHY. It would make it more of a challenge for everyone w/o sacrificing play ability.

As far as ZASLON is concerned, from what's out there, it seems like a very good system overall.

The rest is just food for thought and I'll get a little European here, or the bin for the thought.

Probably screwed that up, it's OK!

A little news I'm tracking...

VIETNAM: Think T-90S/SK (Command version.).
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_..._10807172.html

This was confirmed by JANE'S 360, however they have drastically cut down on their archival lifespan of those articles.

As late as June however they still were considering the T-90MS. Why I try not to "jump the gun" on these things.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...840606161.html

UKRAINE: Industry in the the production of armor has been ramping up for sometime now, though it's nice to see fulfill their obligations to Thailand, it's what the first para says about Ukraine's own OPLOT-M tanks that caught my eye.

Related: Pakistan and the Ukraine an "old couple looking to find some magic again" Simply beyond the current plans to upgrade the Pakistani T-84UD tanks it looks like an improved version of the OPLOT-M is on the "near term" horizon.
http://defence-blog.com/army/ukraine...-pakistan.html
http://defence-blog.com/army/ukraini...deas-2016.html


Good Night!!

Regards,
Pat

[luigim]

New stuff about T72B3 mod. 2016

http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._10604172.html

http://www.janes.com/article/70252/r...-moscow-parade

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.w...ry-day-parade/

http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspo...-upgrades.html

[DRG]

I've adjusted the armour ratings based on the photos showing the position of the slat armour. I will probably adjust the Icon as well