MBT's

[MarkSheppard]

NORINCO has also unveiled the new "GL-5" APS that might be installed on the latest block production of ZTZ-99s -- I wouldn't go putting it in until we see ZTZ-99 photos with APS installed.

http://defence-blog.com/army/china-u...tle-tanks.html

By Dylan Malyasov - Aug 16, 2017228
The China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO Group) has shown for the first time its new GL5 active protection system (APS) designed for main battle tanks during the show in Baotou in the Inner Mongolia autonomous region on Wednesday morning.

According to the NORINCO, the new GL5 APS can provide Chinese armour more reliable protection against the threat for the tanks on the battlefields, including light anti-tank weapons, anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM). The system providing full 360-degree horizontally and 20-degree in vertical direction vehicle protection.

The GL5 APS uses a special radar to detect incoming warheads. Upon detection, a defensive rocket is fired that detonates near the inbound threat, destroying it before it hits the tank or vehicle.

The Norinco’s APS system consists of a multi-mission, fire-control radar that detects and tracks incoming threats and launcher for defensive rockets.

Experts said that the new GL5 active protection system will be installed on the new ZTZ-99 main battle tanks.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Since Mark is on a China kick again , here's some other toys I'm watching as well...
There really aren't that many "tank destroyers" out there right now that are really any good a notable exception would be Italy's CENTAURO among a handful of others.
http://www.iveco-otomelara.com/wheeled/centauro8x8.php
Note: I believe Italy is about to get the above as contracts were recently signed. Still have much to verify here though before anyone does anything. I can say from what I've found out thus far concerning that 120mm HPMG, it'll be able to handle anything out there. It is wise to remember a gun no matter how good is only as good as the ammo it uses to reach max. effect on the battlefield. This is why in combination we still see that modern 105mm MG's can still kill modern MBT's. I digress-sorry!

China has responded to the task with the ST2.
http://www.janes.com/article/66778/n...tank-destroyer
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/st2.htm

Also we are to see major upgrades the TYPE 96/96A with the now 96B.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...xperience.html
http://csef.ru/en/oborona-i-bezopasn...vnovaniya-6946

Though Russia probably just had a "quite" laugh...
http://defence-blog.com/army/new-chi...mpetition.html

Sorry but my JANE'S links are dead, had 2 on the TYPE 96B-SORRY!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just checked that JANE's link from the above, apparently it works. I might've caught the site during a maintenance period.

Regards,
Pat

[MarkSheppard]

Pat,

I think it is very important to keep in mind HOW China's Military-Industrial Complex works.

There's a lot of prototype kit produced each year by China's MIC; like the ST2:

China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) has expanded its armoured vehicle portfolio with the development of the ST2 tracked 105 mm Tank Destroying Vehicle (TDV), which is understood to have been developed specifically for the export market rather than the People's Liberation Army (PLA).

The PLA(N) recently retired their last gun armed Tank Destroyer, the PTZ-89 on 3 November 2015 from 39th Army Group in favor of more ATGMs; so chances of the ST2 being acquired by the PLA(N) are microscopic.

What does happen is that because labor costs in China are extremely low, it doesn't cost that much to design and build a few prototypes; and sometimes they score on the export market; thanks to China not being so picky what the purchaser is doing -- for example what human rights violations?

Also, the PLA(N) may use export markets to "piggyback" R&DT&E development through an export customer; so what may appear to be a 'dead end' can actually turn out to be productive; like the Pakistani Memorandum on Joint Development for tank development which produced the Type 85-II/Type-90-II/Al Khalid/MBT-2000/VT-1 family of vehicles.

Even though the Chinese version of that family: ZTZ-90 (Type 90) lost out to the ZTZ-96 (Type 96) family for the next generation of PLA tank acquistion, it still got sold decently overseas as MBT-2000/Al Khalid/VT-1.

Known Current Chinese Export Tanks under the current designation system (god, they keep changing their designations every few years) are:

Type 90-II/MBT-2000/Al Khalid --- EXPORT VERSION ----> VT-1

ZTZ-96G ---- EXPORT VERSION ---> VT-2

Type 59 (ZTZ-59) --- Modernized with new turret, 125mm gun, and similar add on armor that modern Chinese tanks have ---> VT-3

ZTZ-99G ---- EXPORT VERSION ---> VT-4

VT-5: Brand new light tank of completely new design. May be NORINCO attempting to recoup costs on a private (or public/private) venture to produce a Type 62 (ZTZ-62) replacement for the PLA(N).

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

A better and more current look at the VT-5 in what's probably it's final iteration.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/augu..._81808171.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/chin..._11711164.html

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

A little tank news from the Ukraine...
AS a further modification of the T-72B1, they have now developed the T-72AMT (And good luck trying to keep up with all these mods for the T-72 from here and their close friends to the East.). Both refs. say the Army received the first tank this month. The second ref. indicates a 130 T-72'S have already been improved to this mark and are in service. Both agree a unit is operating with them. One is saying they're still finishing testing. So here's what I think...

1) FOC OCT 2017. It "cuts to the chase" of the ambiguity of the issue from these articles. They are as I predicted over a year pressing on with tank production and I posted on this then when they hired and I forgot his name, the American that was in charge of that and more for the USA. In fact also very recently I posted an article that as a side bar mentioned how they had ramped UP production of the OPLOT-M. Ukraine is defiantly selling armor now (Memory "lighting bolt" that article dealt with Pakistan updating their T-84 and possibly looking into buying an updated version of the OPLOT-M that the Ukraine also wants to build about 3 weeks back as I recall.) sells and foreign investment is spurring on production. Anyway...

2) 3rd GEN Night Vision well that means simply the TI/GSR will be greater then 40. The OPLOT-M should be at 50 however I can't determine if this should be rated at 50 or 45.
The next should narrow that decision point down somewhat I think to the higher side.

3) At 5km this ATGW can penetrate 750mm of protected armor. Poland is looking into this ATGW as well that was developed with the help of a small Middle Eastern country. The numbers have been verified by India very recently for the ARJUN Mk II. It sounds similar to the BAR'ER or STUGNA-P weapon now used in a man portable and APC versions in the ARMY. The comparison chart was also very interesting IN REF 1.
http://spetstechnoexport.com/catalogues/494
http://www.defence24.com/361151,ukra...-tank-weaponry

4) Protected by NOZH all the way around which is a highly effective ceramic armor system. There further news here concerning the T-64 BULAT apparently they now have the same system as well. OPLOT-M was the first to receive it.
And because I type so slooow...
"The tank is also hinged with anti-cumulative gratings, reducing the impact of HEAT hits, while protecting the most vulnerable parts of the tank. The engine, transmission and other components are also protected by slat armour to reduce the impact of shaped-charge weapons." from ref 1.

5) Comms very similar to Turkeys ALTAY because it is from them. Believe ALTAY will have a level III system at FOC.

6) More durable mobility and suspension system.
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...in-battle-tank
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...-ato-zone.html

Now I know this next tank will cross someones mind out here, so, let me just quash that thought now. It is not the T-72UA1 that's been available to the export market since 2012 and rumored to be sometime after that in Ukrainian service.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72ua1.htm

However the fact that Ethiopia has been operating them might be of some value here.

[b]3a)/B] I believe I got it looks like it's possibly the KOMBAT ATGW or improved version which I suspect based on the articles I've read concerning India's testing of them for ARJUN. But it does fit the refs. from the beginning of the post.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...kombat-i-konus

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

3) At 5km this ATGW can penetrate 750mm of protected armor. Poland is looking into this ATGW as well that was developed with the help of a small Middle Eastern country. The numbers have been verified by India very recently for the ARJUN Mk II. It sounds similar to the BAR'ER or STUGNA-P weapon now used in a man portable and APC versions in the ARMY. The comparison chart was also very interesting IN REF 1.
http://spetstechnoexport.com/catalogues/494
http://www.defence24.com/361151,ukra...-tank-weaponry
Regards,
Pat

WHICH one ?? there are three listed I can see

Corsar ATGM -- 550 mm pen-- range of the missile is defined as 2.5 kilometers

Stugna-P ATGM == up to 800 mm pen -- range up to 4 kilometres

Bar’er -- 800 mm pen tandem hollow-charge -- range 100-5000 m


none show 750mm....... we added "Korsar ATGM" which is the Corsar above last release and I'm not sure why they need the Stugna if they have the Bar’er ( sounds Isreali....... )

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

You might've missed my para 3a) at bottom of my last Post (Emboldening didn't take.)(2hr. edit thing) with the extra search time I came across the KOMBAT it states...

Chart at top shows the 750mm penetration at 5000m/5km. Min. range should be 100m still.

"The KOMBAT laser-beam riding precision-guided missile can launch from the 125-mm smoothbore guns mounted on the T-72, T-80UD and OPLOT main battle tanks equipped with fire control systems compatible with it."

"The KOMBAT has four fold-out fins at its extreme rear, and offers an effective range of 5,000 m which it covers in 17 seconds."

"The laser beam is only brought into coincidence with the target (tank or helicopter) for 0.3 seconds prior to impact, effectively leaving the enemy with no time to activate a laser-warning system. At a range of 5.0 km, miss distance does not exceed 0.5 m. The missile has been accepted as standard issue for the Ukrainian Armed Forces."

KOMBAT it is from what I can see from the State run UKROBORONSERVICE and as developed by State Design Bureau Luch in Kyiv, are series produced by the Artem State Joint Stock Holding Company, also based in Kyiv. So this matches the ref. as well. This is their current tank fired ATGW.

ALSO the T-72AMT has the same MG as the OPLOT-M a 125mm A246, this combined with the KOMBAT would strongly support the fact that the T-72AMT has to have an improved FCS to handle that ATGW. The below ref even states that at the start of para. 2.

Again from the bottom of my last Post...
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...kombat-i-konus

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

From LUCH Min Rng. 500m Max Rng 5000m. They also show the T-64 BULAT must be equipped with this as well. The Russian missiles must be no longer on these specific tanks T-64 BULAT/T-72 as noted (Such as AMT)/T-80UD/OPLOT and OPLOT-M.
http://www.luch.kiev.ua/en/productio...guided-missile
http://www.luch.kiev.ua/images/data/Kombat_Eng.pdf

luigim posted on these in Feb. this year, found it on the web.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=51489

Gotta Gooo!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

ALSO the T-72AMT has the same MG as the OPLOT-M a 125mm A246, this combined with the KOMBAT would strongly support the fact that the T-72AMT has to have an improved FCS to handle that ATGW. The below ref even states that at the start of para. 2.
Regards,
Pat

http://soha.vn/ukraine-tung-goi-nang...0154048992.htm

you'll need to run the translator

Ukraine has introduced the new T-72AMT upgrade package, basically it is not so different from the previous T-72AG.
The most significant change was the 6TD-2 turbocharged diesel engine with a capacity of 1,200 horsepower; Added lateral armor as well as turret armor, enhanced contact armor 1 on the front; TKN-ZUM viewfinder for 12.7mm machine gun; 1K-13-49 and TNK-72 viewfinder for the gunner with the head of the car ...

Thanks to a ballistic computer and a laser beam projector, the T-72AMT can fire a Kombat (AT-11 Sniper) anti-tank missile with a range of 5,000 m over the barrel, as well as accurately firing bullets through kinetic energy. Up to 2,500 m in size.

so really its the AG we had in the last update with some tweaks