This game is an expensive coaster - Page 7

Resident Alien · #61 May 26th, 2001, 03:19 AM

Close your eyes, listen to the sound of your breathing..... in, out, in, out...... be one with the sound of your breathing. Relax. Your mind is a calm pool.....

You like it, or you don't. If you do, play on. If you don't then, don't play. It's simple. You don't need to have the Last word. It's only a game.

God Emperor · #62 May 26th, 2001, 04:29 AM

Kagetora,
Just as a note; none of the mods in mod pack or my mods (ResearchDesign or Klingons, Romulans, Shadows, etc) actually give the AI an advantage. All they do is better optimise the way in which the AI operates - eg equips ships, does its research, reacts to political overtures, etc.

Now you can argue (with some justification perhaps) that this means that the game wasnt fully complete, but, the game architecture is far beyond any other game I have played.
Also, the willingness to undertake patches clearly demonstrates Aarons committment to the game.

The main thrust of my comment here is that the game should not be written off and assigned to the dustbin - any comments you make in this direction are unfounded.

I believe that you should limit your comments to the lack of TCP/IP support (which I would like to see at some point too) - most of your other comments reflect a lack of play experience with the game or the mods that are available for it, and appreciation of what has been done to date.

As a final comment, I too was reading the forum prior to the games release and noted the cries from people to have the game released as soon as possible, in whatever shape is was. I believe that Aaron responded to these demands to some extent and this made me wary initially of purchasing the game - I didnt actually order a copy until the second patch was released around Christmas time and I was able to assess peoples feedback in the forum.

Since I received my copy though, I have greatly enjoyed the game and many of the mods, despite some issues, and have not touched another game since.
For me (a very picky gamer), this places the game in the same Category as MOO2 and Civilisation in the addictiveness stakes.

As I said earlier, feel free to give your opinion regarding TCP/IP (in a non-imflammatory manner), but, dont cane the whole game - particularly if you havent experienced all of its potential (via mods, PBEM, etc).

Master Belisarius · #63 May 26th, 2001, 04:48 AM

Kagetora: if you want to play Online, you don't need to wait anymore for the TCP/IP feature in SE4! Simply go and play Homeworld or Imperium Galactica II, or wait for MOO3 and Stars! Supernova, or something else fantastic game.

Atrocities · #64 May 26th, 2001, 05:06 AM

Very well said God Emperor. Your skill with diplomacy is without second.

Richard · #65 May 26th, 2001, 05:42 AM

Actually I have had some time to cool off from this as I took in Pearl Harbor (pretty good, you should check it out).

Kagetora, like everyone on this forum, has a right to his opinion. At the time I reacted rather harshly to his accusations of myself and Aaron being unethical, immoral, crimnial, and such and attempting to assert that we lied to him. I will not apologize for my reaction to that as everyone who knows me knows that I try to be more than fair in every situation.

As far as TCP/IP goes it is something we would like to finish but it is not something we promised at the time of sale and is not listed as a feature of the game. I never stated otherwise. Part of the problem is we are sometimes too open with our fans and some people don't know how to deal with this. When a new load comes out in beta I actually post the full history file showing to the world all of the bugs that are fixed instead of hiding them like many companies do. We also try to help the folks working on the game. I have acted as a medium on many occasions when a specific person had a suggestion on fixing the game and somehow Aaron missed his email. I have been working extensively with Doug Fields to get Play By Web off the ground and worked with him and Aaron to help fix the command line problems with 1.35. I also worked with cdmag to get the modders work recognized (as they deserver) in a larger venue.

So eve though part of me is still upset I will offer you a deal. If you really feel that slighted please drop me an email with another Shrapnel Game of your choice and I will mail it to you. Now I am not admitting fault by doing this and I don't plan on doing this for everyone else. But obviously some bad blood has happenned here that is not good for the community, and our community needs every player.

So if your serious about resolving this instead of shouting and calling names just drop me an email at rdarnese@shrapnelgames.com.

Thanks.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Possum · #66 May 26th, 2001, 06:08 AM

Richard, that is very generous of you.

There is an irony in this, really. Someone who felt equally slighted, but complained politely, would certainly not have been rewarded like this. But Kagetori was extremely rude, and he gets the unheard of break.

Can you see how this would seem to encourage discourtesy?

I fully understand the pragmatic reasons why this happens, it just seems bitterly ironic.

Richard · #67 May 26th, 2001, 06:13 AM

Actually it depends. If someone came to me with a legitimate concern and I felt we had misled them then I would have done the same thing probably.

Problem is for this specific issue there would be no way to convince me of that rationally because we didn't do anything wrong.

One problem with arguments like this is once the rhetoric gets to a certain level neither side can find a "safe" way out without loosing face. At least this way maybe he will feel more comfortable to drop this and if that costs me a free game that's no big deal.

However your right, if I saw a group of copycats spring out of this I would probably be less forgiving to the new guys

.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Atrocities · #68 May 26th, 2001, 06:52 AM

Richard, without a doubt, your one of the most forthright company guys I have ever had the fortune to interact with. What you are doing here for this guy goes why beyond customer service, and for that, you deserve to be recognized.

It is an absolute shame that, at times, people feel the need to be difficult about something that they should otherwise use more diplomacy with.

I for one am thankful for having this game, and for ALL the work you and Aaron have done to keep us up to date on game developments. I lucked out finding this game back in August and have been supportive of it ever since.

I remember when BOTF came out, and the developers at Microprose got bombed hard because the game did not measure up to the fans expectation. They go so inundated by hate mail, for an otherwise awesome game that even to this day is par non, the best star trek game out, that they just simply said no more help. You ungrateful little people are on your own now. Aaron and you have not done this despite the set backs, and for that, I am very grateful.

Space Empire IV provides far more than just game play. It provides growth, creativity, and expandability. This is far more than any other game has to offer, and that is a fact. Sure in time it will have TCI/IP play, but it was never a guarantee, and if we get it, fantastic, if we don't, no sweat. Eventually, perhaps in SEV, we will, and that is something I am prepared to wait for.

I love this game, and I know that I am not alone or else you would not have over 60 fan made races with unique ship sets, Mods, or other fan based supported items.

Please do not let the opinion of one person who chose to voice it in such a manner as to ignite a flame war, over the value of what so many others have placed upon this game. You are a good company exec, and Shrapnel Games is a great company. Aaron chose very wisely in partnering up with you, and we all know this to be true.

Keep up the good work Richard, and please let Aaron know that he too is very much appreciated.

Kagetora · #69 May 26th, 2001, 02:05 PM

Kagetora,
Just as a note; none of the mods in mod pack or my mods (ResearchDesign or Klingons, Romulans, Shadows, etc) actually give the AI an advantage. All they do is better optimise the way in which the AI operates - eg equips ships, does its research, reacts to political overtures, etc.<<<<

Well as I said I haven't tried any of the mods, I really only wanted the game to play TCP/IP with friends. I am not sure how you can be certain exactly how the mods do anything unless you programmed it yourself, although I can't disagree more on giving the game itself credit for completion based on mods they didn't even produce. However, perhaps I should try one and see for myself.

Which mod is the best one and where can I download it?

Resident Alien · #70 May 26th, 2001, 02:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kagetora:
... However, you enraged my friend and he has actually obtained an attorney. Not sure where that might lead yet. ....

I'm sorry but I can't take this BS any more. I've seen this drivel on too many newsGroups/web Boards before to be impressed. The old "I'm consulting an attorney" bluff.... yeah right, and the moon is green. A lawyer will charge $50-$100 just to hear the problem and the $$'s only get bigger from there. Perhaps you might get an explanation from your friend as to why he thinks that is sensible for a $40 computer game.