Helo News game related.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

According to the next the first unit was manned in June 1971 and stood up by 1 July. You're in the "swag" even Oct. 1971 would work based on previous HUEY flying/maintenance experience. More an issue for the mechanics than pilots in switching to the twin turbo engines. This would be up to you-just wanted to finish what I started.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ES4...ter%3F&f=false

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

That book reference was just what I needed ... definitive dates!
Yeah, would have taken till October to get enough of them and get folks up to speed.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

During the time of my "problems" I've had some time to think about things in particular of helos within the game and how I've submitted them. Combining game and real life realities and limitations, I've been wrong in some of my past submissions, there has to be some "ascendancy" here driven by the fact that a country is not going to sell it's top equipment with if you will "with its full kit" currently the AH-64E GUARDIAN enjoys a TI/GSR of 60 which is game limited and fine for the U.S. it's their/our "baby" but with the possible exception of the UK, for TAIWAN and SOUTH KOREA definitely not especially given the "neighborhood" they'd be operating in the same would be true for INDIA as well who's the newest customer to receive this helicopter and the following ref. shows what system (FCS Radar) they've approved to get which is making my point for me.
http://www.janes.com/article/59908/a...rs-for-apaches

That radar was on the AH-64D LONGBOW which in the USA is/has already started being converted to the AH-64E GUARDIAN. This (game) can't be just about parity without a dose of reality to temper it. Countries have advantages and disadvantages and are we not paying for that when you buy/choose a certain piece of equipment?

In my mind right now U.S. stays at 60, UK 55 and the rest 50 TI/GSR which would eventually in POLAND as well once their program funding issues are resolved. The current USA version is already in a BLOCK III configuration.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...-signed-02480/
http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/A...e-Longbow.html
http://copevents.pmi.org/pmosymposiu...l.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I'm not however saying the U.S. "owns the block" Russia, Germany/France, Italy, Israel (That has a very long history of buying equipment and improving them on their own.) and South Africa (Yes the ROOIVALK when it first appeared it was considered for a while the most advanced helo in it's class. After being taken out of operational service for 18 months the much improved version the ROOIVALK MK1 (Game entered.) still ranks among the best flying now.) the last two countries being the "David's amongest the Goliath's". Original ROOIVALK...
http://www.airforce-technology.com/p...-ah2-rooivalk/

Not much on specifics on the MK1 either just maybe SADF doesn't what to talk about it much beyond the "generalities" of that helo.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well this really again supports what I wrote in the above Post and answers as well which FCS the South Koreans would/will be getting for their APACHE GUARDIAN AH-64E helicopters. Like India, they'll also be receiving the LONGBOW system.

I would suspect this is how it'll play out for the present and further, other foreign buyers down the road in regards to the FCS and with the EW rating possible reduction.
http://www.janes.com/article/63316/b...sales-to-korea.

Tonight I'm beat, so I'll think take care.

Regards,
Pat

[IronDuke99]

The most likely nation to have top level US kit with all bells and whistles is UK (and sometimes Israel)?

I know there are a lot of backroom negotiations going on regarding F35 and core computer codes, between the US (and Lockheed Martin) and the UK.

UK being the only first tier partner in the aircraft understandably want the full code for modification and service reasons. The USA (actually mainly LM) are reluctant to pass it along for reasons that seem far more related to potential profit than security.

[Suhiir]

Gotta love the Military-Industrial complex!

[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by IronDuke99

The most likely nation to have top level US kit with all bells and whistles is UK (and sometimes Israel)?

I know there are a lot of backroom negotiations going on regarding F35 and core computer codes, between the US (and Lockheed Martin) and the UK.

UK being the only first tier partner in the aircraft understandably want the full code for modification and service reasons. The USA (actually mainly LM) are reluctant to pass it along for reasons that seem far more related to potential profit than security.

Seems a bit galling when they have allowed Israel access to the code and helped IAI and Elbit to develop Israel's own electronic warfare, missile guidance systems and helmet mounted displays for the F-35I.

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

Seems a bit galling when they have allowed Israel access to the code and helped IAI and Elbit to develop Israel's own electronic warfare, missile guidance systems and helmet mounted displays for the F-35I.

Israel has a strong political lobby in the US that the UK, and other nations, lack.

On the F35 I suspect UK will get most, at least, of what it wants, if only because the two large new UK carriers, that depend on F35, are going to be important assets in a world with constrained numbers of US Carriers and an expansionist China set on getting a blue water navy and becoming a important carrier player.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I've been keeping an eye on this issue for quite sometime now. To be clear except for some the National Guard might (Older model OH-58 KIOWA A/C) have, the OH-58D KIOWA is the current version flown by both the USA and National Guard. Based on the following refs. The USA will officially retire them when the 1st Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment of the 82nd Airborne Division returns to Fort Bragg N.C. probably in June 2017 as these types of rotations are GENERALLY one year unaccompanied tours.
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/fort...korea-1.446206

They are currently involved in an exercise in South Korea which more then likely has been extended due to N. Koreas very recent ICBM missiles launches (Attempts).
https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific...korea-1.450886

So where does that leave us? Well the OH-58D for the USA again will be retired as noted above by JUNE 2017 at the latest I would suspect. The National Guard will continue to fly the OH-58D and receive some from the USA as well, this to meet their combat requirements, more on that below. Others will be put into storage and sold off to foreign countries as has already happened.

So Greece again as I noted with the F-16V could do worse as again the OH-58D KIOWA has seen some upgrades.

Ah but everyone is concerned about what's happening with the OH-58D, can the AH-64E GUARDIAN/or AH-64D LONGBOW handle the interim scouting mission (Yes the 64E especially.) yes they can and finally what will the future be? Well not to sound "all doom and gloom" it won't matter because game wise we'll never see it by 2025.

Why would I bring this up? Because nobody is talking about the OH-58F which became operational in 2013. The problem is the USA has them however not in enough numbers to cover the USA requirements to fulfill the mission, ergo back to the AH-64D/E to fill the gap. A quote from the first ref. below it. The "emboldening" is mine...

"In its FY 2015 Budget, the Army decided to retire all Kiowa Warrior A, C and D models. It is unknown whether it will also retire already upgraded OH-58F models." So far nothing is out there to say they are going to officially. If it stays that way the OH-58F upgrade was intended was intended to keep those "birds" relevant to 2025. From the data I can get I believe the USA has about 30 to maybe 40 of the OH-58F models before all funding was cut out in the FY 2015 (Oct. 2014 - Sep. 2015) Budget. Full rate production and conversion has been canceled beyond the above craft for the OH-58F.
http://www.fi-aeroweb.com/Defense/OH...a-Warrior.html
https://www.army.mil/article/102288/...rcraft_profile
http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/oh58f.htm
http://helihub.com/tag/oh-58f/

And note this is not the AVX proposed upgrade program which is totally a separate issue from the OH-58F upgrade.

More on the OH-58D...
https://thetacticalhermit.com/2016/0...opter-by-2017/
http://abc11.com/news/armys-kiowa-wa...ation/1293251/
http://www.janes.com/article/59599/u...raining-flight
http://www.militarytimes.com/picture...tion/83186360/
http://www.usar.army.mil/News/Displa...one-last-time/

And finally the UH-72A...
I'm going to keep this simple it's a game "non-starter", why? Well the last I checked we don't use helicopter ambulances in the game ICO the USA. Second the somewhat "militarized" model is used by the National Guard (NG) for Homeland Security Missions which is clearly spelled out by the manufacturers ref. below and the rest. Of the 385 "birds" allocated for already over 200 are destined for the NG. The USA is seeking to increase the final number to 415 which, I believe has been approved.
http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/prod...2a-product.asp
http://uh-72a.com/about/milestones.asp
http://www.military-today.com/helico...72a_lakota.htm
http://www.fi-aeroweb.com/Defense/UH-72-Lakota-LUH.html
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/uh-72a-lakota/
http://www.military.com/equipment/uh-72a-lakota
https://www.army.mil/article/137585
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AT9Dy3ToAw

Lastly and sadly we recently lost a fine officer that some refer to as "The Father of Air Assault"...
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/reti...at-94-1.453672

To summarize... I haven't checked but, it should be obvious if the UH-72A LAKOTA is in the game then we can celebrate by having more slots available! Always a good thing. The OH-58D I still feel JUN 2016 is a very viable retirement date based on the above. And I suspect the OH-58F will end up being an add from around JAN 2014 - DEC 2025. I'm "splitting" the difference here on the start date, due to the dates I'm seeing on the web as noted by a couple of the refs. above as well. She'll see far w/TI/GSR 60.

Pictures...




Well it's "hump day" so I'm off to bed so, a good night or morning to ya!!!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Yes BUT Pat the USA OOB INCLUDES a large number of National Guard units and formations so why would I remove something still used by them to open up slots I don't need ATM ?