Is it just me or is Hellheim troops way to strong?

[thejeff]

Then what do the vanjarls do to them?
How are they equipped?

I'd be tempted to try 2 shields. Charcoal & Vine? You're not hitting them anyway.

[Kuritza]

He is hitting very, very hard. Two skill 16 attacks is good enough, especially after cold aura and shield soften the enemy down.
They only need three lvl4 items, one of them is armor piercing weapon. And a dual bless, of course. Regular units go down as grain too...
Something's wrong here in my opinion.

[Gandalf Parker]

Whose domain is the fighting in?
What scales are there?

Your previous posts make it sound as though the nations which could have held up against Vanheim were taken out by other players before they could do any good. That tends to be the way the game plays. It could just as easily have been early defeat of Ermors best enemy, or early defeat of Ulms. Thats the joy of rock-paper-scissors balance. If you take out all of the scissors, you might later regret it.

[Kuritza]

Domain doesnt matter, they kill troll either way in two rounds before morale kicks in. Most SCs wont hit them due to defense 30 and mirror images.

Vanheims neighbours were Abyssia (which he killed immediately), me as Tien Chi (busy fighting first Shinuyama, then Machaka), Caelum (who got ganked) and Ulm who didnt care about Vanheim.
No race should be THAT powerful against all nations but a few - because you cant count on these few races to be his neighbours, or not to be ganked by other players, or simply get rushed/raided to death by Vanheim himself.

[Gandalf Parker]

Then we have a problem with Ermor, and Ctis, and Arcos, and Jotunheim.

[Valandil]

I think that everyone misses an important point. Are eg. helhirdings unbalanced when UNBLESSED? No? Then perhaps the problem is with a combination of F9W9 and High-def glamour troops?

I can't say I've ever noticed losing more quickly to Helheim than anyone else, but I'm so awful that it hardly matters.

Perhaps the following test- One battle with eyes of the void or a mod removing glamour. One battle with no bless. One battle with current stats/abilities. At least we could then determine where the (possible) problem comes from.

[lch]

Valandil said:
I think that everyone misses an important point. Are eg. helhirdings unbalanced when UNBLESSED? No? Then perhaps the problem is with a combination of F9W9 and High-def glamour troops?

So you want to talk about "unbalanced" bless combinations instead, yes?

[StrictlyRockers]

I am playing in my first MP game, and I got Vanheim.

I have never played Vanheim before. So I am reading this thread for advice, and I am also playing a SP game of the scenario and the mod we are using with all of the other players replaced by Impossible AI.

We are using the Dawn of Dominions map. The other players are:
Arcoscephale
Agartha
C'tis
Oceania
Ulm
Sauromatia
Kailasa
Ermor
Vanheim
Caelum
Marverni
Helheim

I am looking for advice on force composition and structure. Should I use lots of small units and spread them out to avoid area of effect damage spells? At four or less units per squad they get a morale penalty, right? So maybe squads of 6-8 bad guy Vanheims per?

Should they charge in right from the start? I think so. I have no missle troops to purchase of any sort. So unless I can recruit some bowmen, I am at a disadvantage at range.

I can't really go into detail about what my pretender looks like. I suppose I could because I don't expect to win this one, and I do want to learn as much as possible from this first MP game.

Does anyone have some viable Vanheim strategies that they could pass on? Thanks! They are greatly appreciated.

[Beorne]

you could play blind, left handed and with a parrot on the shoulder and you'll win. ... joking ...

I really, really don't understand the reason some say Van is not unbalanced. You can say "I've talked to the devs and they said will not make any changes" and that is good. But There is no need of simulations and mp statistics, it is enough to see unit statistics to see the unbalancing. And a nation that needs "very large maps" or specialized anti tactics anti or any deep customization, simply tell that thery are unbalanced.
And Pangea ... I've played Pangea allied with Abysia vs Van (whe were three middle experienced gamers), considering that minos and abysians are between the few ones that can do some harm to van ... no story at all. And the middle games strategies for vand are very easy too, pack your nationals with mechanical men and shot big lightings, and the world is your. There is no easy way to protect yourself from lighting if you're Pangea.
Sorry, I know i'm repeating myself, but I don't understand the position "its slightly umbalanced but does not need corrections". The truth is that is greatly unbalanced and needs some (slight!, I dont' want to ruin it) correction. And no, I'm not saying it's bugged, bugs are other things.

[Kuritza]

Gandalf Parker said:
Then we have a problem with Ermor, and Ctis, and Arcos, and Jotunheim.

Death nations and massed elephants, eh? At least you can kill them with priests, battle magic, massed archers and so on. You can fight them. LA Ermor also has a big 'gank me' sign overhead, its a target number 1 for anyone.
They lack an unkillable multipurpose unit, which is my main concern. Btw, F9W9 blessing isnt the only way - I have seen W9E9 blessing, and it seems like a great idea. Makes vans even harder to kill. What makes vans even more annoying is stupid mages always casting thunder strikes etc at the chaff units. As long as vanheim brings some militia with him or hires PD, mages will happily thunderstrike them, ignoring the real treat. Then your mages get 100 fatique, vans charge and kill your melee units, gg. Seen that many times.

And yes, its a combination of a double 9 blessing and glamour troops with great stats.