Mod: MA al-Nadim - The thousand and one nights 1.01)

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

For example, even in WWII, in many companies, the Russians at Leningrad issued 2 guns for every 5 soldiers. The ones that didn't have guns were expected to pick them up off the ones that did.
The 'troops' had no training - and were shot by their officers at the merest hint of disobedience.

Sorry, that's just fairy tales. My own grandfather fought as "People's Militia" from Moscow to Konigsberg. So I can say you that they had both weapons (my grandfather having semiauto rifle even though he probably shouldn't according to textbooks) and training enough for his particular division to be awarded a "Guards" status later. Actually, they were first placed in the field to build field fortifications with parallel training. Then they manned these fortifications. Of course, they were worse initially than guys who trained from before war started... but then, you should recall that Soviet Union had quite an effective institute of pre-service training, too (Germany had such, too, and Italy and France iirc). As for Leningrad it was a city with quite a number of plants both military and converted to military production as fighting got closer. They even developed a brand new SMG while under the siege! Of course, artillerists, drivers, scrives and such most often did not had rifles.

Returning to cavalry it always had a mobility advantage against infantry but there were periods when it was definitely weaker in straight-out combat. Fortunately, Middle Ages wasn't such a preiod and most Dominions nations live in this period. Still, your rationalization is quite weak. One reason I say so is that riders in Dominions 3 get Def bonus above and beyond their own training. This was done as far as I see to make cavalry surviable on battlefield which was not always so in Dom2. (At the same time they almost always have a Precision penalty) What this bonus may represent is a combination of greater tactical mobility and a chance that attack will strike horse or part of a harness instead of a rider.
Finally, you have probably mistaken a thread.

[elmokki]

There's the last hero I promised. I guess I might add some new hero later, but unless I get a really good idea for a hero, I guess this is it for heroes for now.

EDIT: Apparently you need to copystats for both insane and heretic, and I don't know of any unit who is both insane and heretic without side effects, so Alhazred will sadly have to do with being just insane.

[Wrana]

Sorry for being late - those were my hashishiines.
I think they should be sacred, even if they won't probably be blessed often. However, it may be fixed through #onebattlespell...
Considering your troops I think that it's better to replace (or add to) militia with bedhouin raiders who come only for loot - a widely used practice which survived until Ottoman times. I made those average quality lightly armed infantry and horsemen which fight only one battle just like Ermor gladiators (using #copystats, of course). They may be used as either attack force in early game, or as chaff later.
(Also, we made many troops using improved robes for armor, adding also turban and turbaned helm). Another thing I did was including both light stealthy troops and corsairs. Light raiders fought on foot but used horses for faster movement - thus Move 3.
Another thing I consider important is particularly good horses providing faster movement - this also giving a better offense to light lancers you seem having some small problem with (these are Arabic horses, so heavy Ghulams do not have them)... As for camels per se I just gave them a supply bonus. Camel troops can be made better if you consider that early Muslim armies used camels to transport their archers up to 4 per camel (I'd made just 2) and arrows for them. So, I propose to include a new "camel bow" (or somesuch) with unit description mentioning additional arrows and give camel archers 2 such attacks. Combined with animal awe, it would be quite good, I think. Another possible summon is cheetah.
As for commanders, I included also "Baghdad thieves" as spies. Another type you seem to forgot is khadi - judge (thus patrol bonus) and low-level priest. Higher level capital-only priest can be named Hoji.
Mystics are good and I also thought that alchemists should be also researchers. I made another mage's type - sorceress with Nature and Air magic, as these are often mentioned in tales. I thought about making some access for Buried in Sand for these nations as it's thematic, but am not sure.
As for genies I think you don't need to go for Marids as "water genies". Actually, the name came from something with sense like "infidel" (actually, various genie names were often used interchangebly, but that's another story). So I decided that while all EA genies are sacred, by MA some choose to follow the Prophet and other choose not to. The former became "faithful jihn" - sacred, including both troops and mage-commanders (male and female, with different magic), while the latter became "marids" - non-sacred, but their commanders are stronger mages (troops would be either absent or easier to summon).
And your ghuls are great!
I can add my opinion on genie races if you want to make a common work, but I must warn you that this is mostly based on Persian sources.
What certainly should be included is a spell summoning genies to build a palace!

Here are also Alhazred and Old Man of the Mountain if you want them (maybe magic should be slightly reduced; monsters Hassan summons are assassins and disciples - stealthy sacred raiders which are normally capital-only):

#newmonster 2867
#spr1 ""
#spr2 ""
#copystats 1071
#name "Hassan"
#descr "Old Man of the Mountain himself"
#hp 10
#size 2
#prot 0
#mor 11
#mr 16
#enc 3
#str 10
#att 11
#def 14
#prec 11
#mapmove 2
#ap 13
#gcost 300
#rcost 1
#armor "Turban"
#armor "Desert Garb"
#weapon Poison dagger
#magicskill 8 3 ---2?
#magicskill 7 2
#magicskill 4 2
#magicskill 5 2
#holy
#stealthy 20
#ambidextrous 4
#domsummon 2830
#domsummon20 2837
#wastesurvival
#mountainsurvival
#incunrest 10 ---?
#goodleader
#poormagicleader
#poorundeadleader
#startage 200
#maxage 160
#end


#newmonster 2868
#spr1 ""
#spr2 ""
#copystats 333
#name "Abd al al-Hazred"
#descr "That the man is mad, even himself wouldn't disagree. However, he has
an affinity to summoning and communing with genies of the most unusual kind.
This makes him somewhat useful to rulers and sorcerers, though most times his
answers are understood only by himself. He is said to going to write a book
which would summarize the wisdom he has gleaned, but whether or not it would
be actually useful is not known even by the wisest..."
#clearmagic
#hp 9
#size 2
#prot 0
#mor 13
#mr 19
#enc 3
#str 9
#att 8
#def 9
#prec 10
#mapmove 2
#ap 13
#gcost 0
#rcost 1
#armor "Turban"
#armor "Desert Garb"
#weapon fist
#weapon 367 --- Horror mark
#magicskill 4 3
#magicskill 7 3
#magicskill 1 2
#magicskill 5 2 ---?
#fear
#horrormark
#researchbonus 5
#douse 2
#magicbeing
#wastesurvival
#incunrest 8
#goodmagicleader
#okundeadleader
#end

[elmokki]

Originally Posted by Wrana

Sorry for being late - those were my hashishiines.
I think they should be sacred, even if they won't probably be blessed often. However, it may be fixed through #onebattlespell...

Yeah. I gave a thought for it, but I ended up just having them as pretty much standard assassins (well, they have hauberk instead of cuirass, no leather hood, wasteland survival, and a second poison dagger instead of a short sword)

I might change my mind though, but I feel that this nation has quite a lot of interesting stuff already. If I end up making an LA version, it'll have a hashashin for sure though. I really want to make a version of this nation that can summon ghuls (and nasnas, if I end up making them, though I reckon literal half-humans will mostly be a novelty unit) without problem.

[quote]Considering your troops I think that it's better to replace (or add to) militia with bedhouin raiders who come only for loot - a widely used practice which survived until Ottoman times. I made those average quality lightly armed infantry and horsemen which fight only one battle just like Ermor gladiators (using #copystats, of course). They may be used as either attack force in early game, or as chaff later.[quote]
A pretty good idea actually. I don't really like the militia anyway and was thinking of scrapping it along with the lancer.

(Also, we made many troops using improved robes for armor, adding also turban and turbaned helm). Another thing I did was including both light stealthy troops and corsairs. Light raiders fought on foot but used horses for faster movement - thus Move 3.

I think improved robes would go for EA version of this nation (if even there). I do like the look of light armor anyway

Another thing I consider important is particularly good horses providing faster movement - this also giving a better offense to light lancers you seem having some small problem with (these are Arabic horses, so heavy Ghulams do not have them)...

I did think of faster horses along with the lower morale for all basic troops. I just came to conclusion that this isn't real life and faster horses isn't THE thing arabs are known for (though I do agree sheikhs who own horses is in top 10 of things that come to mind for me) nor is undisciplined armies. I still have the beduins morale 9 though, since they're supposed to be more undisciplined.

As for camels per se I just gave them a supply bonus. Camel troops can be made better if you consider that early Muslim armies used camels to transport their archers up to 4 per camel (I'd made just 2) and arrows for them. So, I propose to include a new "camel bow" (or somesuch) with unit description mentioning additional arrows and give camel archers 2 such attacks. Combined with animal awe, it would be quite good, I think. Another possible summon is cheetah.

Did they use more than one archer per camel in combat though? Atleast it'd look a bit silly with a dromedar.

Supply bonus is something to think about (though especially with the possible scrapping of lancer the heavier camel cavalry is actually quite a good unit, the archer less so.)

Cheetah is tempting as is rhino, but they'd go to nature and nature isn't a path I'm intending to give to (MA) al-Nadim.

As for commanders, I included also "Baghdad thieves" as spies. Another type you seem to forgot is khadi - judge (thus patrol bonus) and low-level priest. Higher level capital-only priest can be named Hoji.

I certainly won't be adding new priests without a really good reason (seeing that the nation already has 3, none of which is a mage with some priestly like with for example Marignon), but if you think khadi and hoji are better names for current mullah and imam (naturally with added patrol bonus) I'll look into it.

Mystics are good and I also thought that alchemists should be also researchers. I made another mage's type - sorceress with Nature and Air magic, as these are often mentioned in tales. I thought about making some access for Buried in Sand for these nations as it's thematic, but am not sure.

As tempted as I am to add new mages, I think I really can't increase the amount of diversity (F3, W3, S2, E2 are currently rather easy to get and A2 and E3 aren't that rare (6.25% for an alchemist) either). Sorceress would probably go to EA or possibly LA.

As for genies I think you don't need to go for Marids as "water genies". Actually, the name came from something with sense like "infidel" (actually, various genie names were often used interchangebly, but that's another story). So I decided that while all EA genies are sacred, by MA some choose to follow the Prophet and other choose not to. The former became "faithful jihn" - sacred, including both troops and mage-commanders (male and female, with different magic), while the latter became "marids" - non-sacred, but their commanders are stronger mages (troops would be either absent or easier to summon).

I can add my opinion on genie races if you want to make a common work, but I must warn you that this is mostly based on Persian sources.

The information of djinn in the internet seemed to really vary. Along with that Dungeons & Dragons crap - they invented a genie for each element.

I know the djinns aren't very exclusively of a particular element (even though many places do associate ifrit with fire and marid with water) and I'll sure give the more powerful versions of them some magic variance. I do quite like having them both as sacred and somewhat specialized even though having marids non-sacred isn't a bad idea. In any case we could just say that there's no prophet of Islam-equivalent in Dominions universe and keep the djinn as sacred beings of an earlier era

What certainly should be included is a spell summoning genies to build a palace!

A really good idea. I think I read genies lived in a city of brass (I have no clue how "true" that is, but sounds cool as hell), so a "Palace of Brass" would be a pretty cool spell.

[elmokki]

Now that I think of it, I might make Hashashin a multihero for MA.

And for the post to be less useless, here's an LA infantry parts of which I am very tempted to use for more armored mubarizun for MA, but I reckon the mubarizun are armored enough already - they're rather good heavy infantry. And as for a new MA unit, well, I think we got a relatively balanced and large enough selection of units.

[elmokki]

Still need to make one higher up version after these.

[elmokki]

Here are the last sprites I'll probably be making for (MA) al-Nadim in a while. I'll post an updated mod file soonish.

[elmokki]

0.80
- Feature completeish. All major stuff is done atleast.
- Ifrit Bey, Marid Bey, Marid Sultan and Ifrit Sultan added as summons
- Lancer removed

I need a lot of playtesters to test and and tell how I'll need to adjust unit stats and prices.

[Lurker_at_Threshold]

Pro's: great combat mages, strong sacreds, solid infantry, strong summons, fantastic magical diversity,

Con's: horrible province defense, old mages


I did some play testing on mighty. Once again I have to reiterate how powerful Dervishes are with a 9 water bless. They effectively have 4 attacks and a defensive rating of 19. This enables a small group of them to take out virtually any independent province with virtually no losses. I'd recommend removing 1-2 points of defense from them, simply to keep them from simultaneously being both a moving barrier and a murder machine.

Grand Visers are amazingly good combat mages. They can easily cast both high level fire and water evocations, while also giving them access to the rare and under utilized acid branch. Astral allows them to communion and further boost their casting levels. This easily puts them in the top 5 combat mages of the middle era. They can also easily forge rune smashers, and any level 3 visers can with a ring of sorcery and another generic booster forge a staff of elemental mastery. The fact that they are recruit able anywhere makes them even more powerful. Because of this, I'd recommend making them more expensive while dropping their automatic astral.

You need to fix the coding on the Marid portion of the summon tree, as summon marids produces marid sultans, summon marid beys produces an ifrit bey, and summon marid sultan produces a marid bey. I'd probably raise the summoning level of basic Jinns by 1 and of the Jinn sultans to 8 as they are very good mages/thugs and can easily reach the SC level. They are thankfully not quite in the seraph level, although they are still a very good summon.

[the Vanishag]

I'm looking forward to giving this mod a try - I'll post notes afterward, time permitting.