MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Add on, in the second video note pan shot to rear compartment looks like "jump seats" along the interior hull. Also note load sequence could the ammo be stored between a inner and outer hull space? This would provide for crew protection similiar to submarine design with an outer hull than pressure hull (The people tank.) for protection. I agree from the other thread it'd be nice to hear from an IDF tanker.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This first source does a nice overview table comparison between all MERKAVA mods. And does backup as several other sources "kevineduguay1's" info on the location of fuel storage and it's secondary purpose and it seems the same for the ammo storage containers that I believe are embedded into the interior wall which if we think about it makes sense because every source I've come across says the same thing about the design being driven by and for crew survivability so why impede the crews egress with open ammo storage? I'm sorry but I think that at least where the MERKAVA III and IV are concerned and for what it's worth, that these tanks are fully capable of carrying their full ammo load plus troops and or litters as many legitimate sites mention throughout their articles. This tank requires us to think outside the box a little (ME TOO!) it's the only modern MBT like this currently serving in the world with this design. So before some of you (Including my self!) have "CM ARTY " flashbacks here is that first ref.
http://id3486.securedata.net/fprado/...ite/Mekava.htm
The next one is from one of my regular tried and true sources please take note of the second vid at about the 2:50 mark it'll show an interior shot of loaded combat troops exiting during the combat training already in progress.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product.php?prodID=1602
And finally I promise , how many times have we looked into equipment and because of some kind of design modification or other it's either increased or it seems in most cases decreased the ammo supply of that vehicle? Not one source I've found or posted has even hinted of that with this MBT. With that I'll say tonight or morning (Kind of both for me right now.) to you and have a wonderful day! HEY RG-41 anyone?

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I agree from the other thread it'd be nice to hear from an IDF tanker.

Regards,
Pat

We had a guy posting as "Gingertanker" and I've sent him a PM but no reply so far. What is odd is that AFAIK he never brought this issue up and one would think it would have been one of the first things he would have mentioned when he was posting here.

Don

[kevineduguay1]

FASTBOAT,

Thank you.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm really thinking about doing a "CM ARTY" incoming salvo on this whole MERKAVA 3&4 (I'm really not fully convinced of this capability pre MERK 3.) issue with troop carrying capacity. I think because of my submarine background, I have no problem visualizing this concept. You think we're comfortable on a fast attack submarine where I slept with our food and walked on it in berthing for months at a time? You think because the the temp. was maintained at ... (sorry that's a no go.) a very comfortable level it's for crew comfort? After several weeks our manners go from "excuse me" to "get the ... outta of my way". I can pack for you guys (Drives my wife crazy sometimes.) EVERYTHING you'll need in a sea-bag to fit a six foot long (And I'm taller.) rack that's about six inches deep for 7-8 month's underway, and as a special bonus if your not qualified, it'll be three guys between two racks for the duration. You'd be utterly amazed at where and how we stow our equipment and supplies and maintain total silence in the water. And on our newest class of SSN (Virgina Class.) it's even worse in berthing they have a little more then two feet across to the next bunk can you imagine Battle-stations being manned in less then five minutes coming out of a dead sleep in that? We did it most everyday, sometimes several times a day, and my brothers still do it. Does anyone see or recognize the point I'm trying to make here? Let's review just a couple of points about the MERK 3&4.
1. More so w/MERK4 but 3 as well, they were designed around crew survivability.

2. Ammo is containerized and stored aft to the sides of the hatch to facilitate escape.

3. Fuel is stored between an inner and outer hull to protect against HEAT rounds and the like.

4. Conjecture on my part let's call it "visualization", knowing where the ammo is stored, after the eleven rounds are expended, does the gunner run aft to get more rounds one at a time in the heat of battle? I think not, just because we only had four torpedo tubes doesn't mean we only had four torpedo's. we had a system of racks and hydraulics to load more. Doesn't it make sense if they can store fuel between hulls that they can't load shells in the same manner to the ten round "revolver"?

5. Secrecy, I can understand it about the electronics etc., but why the rear compartment? Again conjecture, but maybe #4 above might not be too far off?

6. I've brought this up before and it's in the "Art of War" somewhere too, but, we have to think out of the box until recently we haven't fought in a truly urban in environment since WWII on a consistent basis. How about your own countries? Aren't we all playing catch up with our equipment to meet this current threat? Look at the net, how many of your countries land weapons programs have suffered because of this? And I'm not talking because of the economy either. Now think about the wars and conflicts Israel has been involved with since 1948, and please people I know this isn't all inclusive I'll give you the Sinai etc. but, the "body of the work" I think they're ahead of us in the "lessons learned" department to some extent.

7. See threads #60 - #62 above.

Finally troops in tanks they can do that I believe.

Respectfully Submitted to ALL with a good night!!
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This will be one of about six MBTs I'll be making a push for this year. This tank has been misrepresented by type (Though even a nationally published Israeli paper identifies it's origin correctly.), been misnamed, I think under armored etc. and just needs a second look within the game. It has gone through a "zero mile" upgrade (A term used by several sources in describing other programs.) which means they've been completely stripped down to "parade rest" reworked and completely upgraded from the inside out. Again this and others will be submitted on "the list" from me within I hope a couple of weeks to a month. This first candidate owes it's modernized pedigree to a lesser extent from the IDFs SABRA but more so to the MERKAVA 3 (BAZ from some sources.) and MERKAVA 4 (Armor, FC and Tracks etc.).
The Turkish M-60T. The first article comes from one the first sources to report on the M-60T Israeli/Turkish joint effort.
http://defense-update.com/wp/2010090...m60t_debu.html as Turkey celebrates it's "Victory Day" earlier this month.
The next one has a nice overview of Turkish forces overall; but note the comments by the M-60A3 TTS and more importantly the one's by the M-60A1 RISE/Passive (Which might be another Turkish OOB issue for their M-60A1 tanks?) this source is backed up by others already presented in this thread.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ar...hp/t-2324.html

And since everyone loves a paradehere's a pic:

For further background on this thread concerning the M-60T please refer to PG.2 Posts #15 & #17, PG.3 Post #25 and
PG.6 Post #58.

Regards,
Pat
(Kind of reminds me partly of my "old" job.)

[Imp]

You wouldnt guess it was an M-60 would you.

[DRG]

It's too bad you weren't around a few years ago. One of our main playtesters had been a crew chief on a Boomer way back when( which, incidentally, was his callsign ).

Don

[EJ]

Pat,
Great info; I love reading your material. You always back it up with proven sources. Keep contributing!

Don OR Andy,

Any chances the Merk 4 will get major upgrades to it's current capabilities?

[kevineduguay1]

FASTBOAT,

The ammo loadouts for Merkava MkI and MkII with a full 8 man squad aboard was stated as 14 rounds. (Tanknet) The funny thing is that the ready rounds for those Mks is 6 on the floor of the turret basket. So if the back space is filled with infantry then the other 8 rounds in two 4 round containers are somewhere in the turret area.
The MkIII has a 5 round ready magazine that I think is mounted on the floor of the turret basket.
The 10 round Magazine of the MkIV is in the turret bussle. The bussle on the MkIV is larger than the other Mks. Not quite Abrams large but large.
Im starting to wonder how many rounds are stored in the turret bussle.