Exploit question

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

Sombre, there is the catch. You don't want it in the game, but I do. Just like I wanted battlefield enchantments staying the way they were. I haven't used either in MP and it is easy enough to detect when someone does and make house rules against it.

So? How is that a catch? I already stated my opinion on Bogus and Co does not fall in line with the majority view. I'm in camp 3) the majority is verifiably camp 2). I play keeping the views of the majority in mind on matters like exploits - since I am aware of them I consider them to be the unspoken rules of common sense. It's irrelevant whether I agree with them or not.

It is not fair that YOU can complain to a company that developed a game I paid a lot of money for and get the game altered. Now I am left in a situation where I can never mod in an intended fire and flee enchantment for SP use. If the Bogus thing were to get changed, I wouldn't be able to use his orders towards the end of a SP just to have something to do for fun.

I'm not sure who you're ranting at here but it can't be me since I've never complained to Illwinter about anything. I can only assume you're projecting.

Some advice re: SP games - use an older patch.
Some advice re: modding - now you can mod an anti enchantment spell that causes casters to flee. Doors and windows.

I'm not going to quote any more from that post because your spittle spray response is in the wrong thread and directed at the wrong person. But here is a slightly older post:

I have a feeling this discussion could be heading down Mists of Deception Boulevard soon.

Well I guess you did give us fair warning you were going to try and drag it that way. And you criticise others for 'nerd rage'. For shame.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by rdonj

And to foodstamp's post after mine - As far as I can tell no one is trying to get it changed so that you can't copy bogus' orders. OP asks a question. A bunch of people respond and state their opinion. No one says "hey this should be changed by the devs because it's buggy". House rules continue to decide whether copying bogus' orders is okay or not and life goes on. Especially since at this point I'm pretty sure the devs are done making such changes to the game.

I concur. Though I think it doesn't really matter if people are asking for something or not. It's selfish to demand nothing changes if change is what people want. It's also insulting to the devs to pretend they are at the beck and call of irrational whiners. If they wanted to change Bogus and Co they would and it's never UNFAIR for those playing their game to provide them with feedback. Who wants to second guess if it will inform their decisions? I sure as hell don't make posts with the intent of changing anyone's mind.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Foodstamp:

Ok, I used some time and did a proper search for Kristoffer's posts about Bogus as your reference was a bit untrue.

First post: [10-02-07]

"I like the fact that the VIsitors, Bogus and his merry men, have the ability to target commanders.

I think it can be fun in an SP game to get hold of these ancient tactical skills. The older the better (in accordance with the creed of most new religious movements). These are dom-ppp survivals and ancient to boot.

I think it would be naughty to use these orders in MP, unless all players agreed to their eventual use.

I think it would be fun if assassins were given limited access to these orders."


Another post:

"BTW, you are not supposed to take Bogus' things from him. Especially if you think that you can make better stuff for yourself."

Zeldor: I didn't reference any of the Devs posts.

Sombre: the You did not mean you personally. I meant if you (as in anyone) wanted something changed, it affects the people who don't want it changed.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Another post:

"BTW, you are not supposed to take Bogus' things from him. Especially if you think that you can make better stuff for yourself."

Ahahahahaha! That explains so much. Thanks for finding that.

-Max

[TwoBits]

There hasn't been a heated discussion like this in a long time - so thanks for the entertaining early X-mas present!

Otherwise, I think this is a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. As others have pointed out, it is supremely unlikely the developers will alter anything at this point, so this all comes down to house rules for MP games. So what's all the fuss about? You don't like the house rules, play another game.

IMO, these special scripts are highly unlikely to occur, but if they do, I can see how they can be unbalancing. Just had a normal MP turn where a Dryad with a Piercer (only 5 E gems - 3 w/ a Hammer - in CBM) gunned down an important enemy mage trying to assist PD. Her script was just 'Eagle Eyes', 'Fire Large Enemy', but she she still zeroed in on a human-sized mage (an Amazon, I think) at the expense of the PD units.

Game over in that fight, and that was just with whatever normal AI algorithms are usually run. But with special Bogus-scripts, and cheap ranged weapons, I can easily see how Bogus' tactics can be seen as game breaking.

But it would be so hard to pull of in MP (OK, Bogus has landed in my territory, and somehow I've got all sorts of free time to organize a Charm-crew, etc.), that it's hard to imagine it's worse than someone finding, say, the Circle Masters magic site, or a Conjuration bonus site.

In the end, I guess that's how I'd rank the outcome: Like finding Mt. Chaining, or that 50% off Conjuration site - yeah, potentially game breaking, but that's the way the lucky ball bounces in Dominions (but then I've seen that some people would like to ban powerful magic sites like that also).

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

IMO, these special scripts are highly unlikely to occur, but if they do, I can see how they can be unbalancing. Just had a normal MP turn where a Dryad with a Piercer (only 5 E gems - 3 w/ a Hammer - in CBM) gunned down an important enemy mage trying to assist PD. Her script was just 'Eagle Eyes', 'Fire Large Enemy', but she she still zeroed in on a human-sized mage (an Amazon, I think) at the expense of the PD units.

That's really interesting. Was it just chance? Can you re-run the battle a few times with new randomization? (Add a unit to the replay and immediately kill it, Shift-U + Shift-K, which resets the randomizer.)

-Max

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

That's really interesting. Was it just chance? Can you re-run the battle a few times with new randomization? (Add a unit to the replay and immediately kill it, Shift-U + Shift-K, which resets the randomizer.)

-Max

Um, I guess I could, if I knew how to do stuff like that Since I've never played around with the guts of Dominions before, I'd really need someone to walk me through that (PM me with details if you're truly interested).

But yeah, it was either luck, or the AI. Besides the Dryad snipers (there were two), all I had, of missile troops, were some monkey archers. They always fired right at the PD, and apparently so did the Dryads for the first few rounds.

Then about round 5 or so, right after the enemy mage - and it was an Amazon - cast Swarm, blamo, both shot at her, and one nailed her. So why did they change targets? Dunno.

[Belac]

As a new person on these boards, can I ask for a neutral explanation of the Mists of Deception brouhaha? I've never cast it or had it cast on me in-game, and the description in the manual is quite vague.

[Trumanator]

Used to be that if you cast it and then retreated the caster the monsters would keep coming. Therefore, if you were the defender it could be literally impossible to lose since the enemy army would hit the turn 50 autorout. Plus it let you kill all of an enemy's mindless and berserk units. All that at the cost of a few A gems and risking a mage for _one_ turn.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Um, I guess I could, if I knew how to do stuff like that Since I've never played around with the guts of Dominions before, I'd really need someone to walk me through that (PM me with details if you're truly interested).

I won't PM because others may be interested. The method is really simple: while watching a battle replay, type Shift+U (uppercase U) and type in a unit name or number, and it will add as many of that type of unit as you ask for to the battle in the place where your cursor was, as independent units. Type Shift+K to kill the units in the square your cursor is over.

If you do this, it obviously changes the battle from the "official" outcome that gets listed in the after-action report (X units killed, etc.) and it doesn't affect the actual game, but it makes testing certain things easy. For instance, you can test whether your killer army that just stomped all over somebody's PD would have done quite so well if the enemy had had 8 Wraith Lords there instead of PD, or if your mage had died before casting Fire Storm.

-Max