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  #61  
Old January 18th, 2009, 10:27 PM

Incabulos Incabulos is offline
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

LA Bogarus has a couple of mis-equipped cav units as far as I could tell.
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  #62  
Old January 18th, 2009, 11:40 PM

quantum_mechani quantum_mechani is offline
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

And which are those?
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  #63  
Old January 19th, 2009, 01:24 PM

Incabulos Incabulos is offline
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

The warhorse hoof, is actually the only thing. the conversation got confused by talk of double hoof attacks which none of them have. So either the notes erroneously say a Grid has a warhorse hoof, or the warhorse hoof is missing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incabulos View Post
CB 1.4
Black Hood 17 gld 17 rsc (notes don't mention gold change)
Styag 30 gld 25 rsc (notes say 35 gold)
Grid 25 gld 30 rsc (notes don't mention gold change, missing warhorse hoof)
Malaia 45 gld 42 rsc (notes don't mention gold change)
Knyaz 35 gld 14 rsc (notes say cost 40 gold)
Veliki 50 gld 21 rsc (notes say cost 60 gold)
P.S thanks for all the hard work and creativity!
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  #64  
Old January 19th, 2009, 03:03 PM
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Kadelake Kadelake is offline
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

There seem to be some errors in the readme file. Deamon whip is listed as con 4 but seems to be con 2 ingame. Also implementor axe is listed as D1E0 but seems to be D1E1 ingame.
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  #65  
Old January 19th, 2009, 03:31 PM

quantum_mechani quantum_mechani is offline
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

Quote:
Originally Posted by darloth View Post
Attached is a zip containing a modified .dm file with all of the errors mentioned in this thread fixed, and ran through a spellchecker to fix all of the thier to their errors and similar. Hope that's helpful.
Thank you very much, this is quite helpful.

And thanks for all the typo and error submissions, I'm going to try to release another minor update today (though as has been pointed out even as it stands 1.4 is less buggy than 1.3).

Last edited by quantum_mechani; January 19th, 2009 at 03:47 PM..
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  #66  
Old January 19th, 2009, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

Plz name the new one in an unambiguous way my friend, I'm gonna use it in an hopefully large MP game soon and I'd gladly avoid confusion 1.41 or something else, you decide
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  #67  
Old January 19th, 2009, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

And I DO hate typos!
Not to repeat what was already mentioned and seems to be fixed by spellchecking I'll add some more things I think erroneous (mind, some of them were quite probably already in it by 1.3 - which still doesn't make them right!):
General:
Across-the-board cheap commanders and across-the-board Stealth 20 seem both unthematic and not good from the balance point of view. Commanders SHOULD cost more than common troopers and humble scouts SHOULDN'T be uncatcheable - especially ones which would stand out among population (Markata scouts with high Stealth are understandable, as well as those races with magical disguise ability. Human nations scouts can be better than Stealth 0, but not by much -and even this isn't necessary!). And some troops are too cheap, too - say, Raptors should be more costly then human light infantry, and Satir Infantry - more than Sneaks!
I think it would be more thematically appropriate for all Engineers to have Hammer as basic weapon, not dagger...
I think that javelins should get more shots in general - probably with Roman-based heavys getting new weapon called "heavy javelin" or somesuch. Light throwers SHOULD get some choice of not entering melee!
There seems to be just too damned much of multiheroes! And while some are good enough, Davata appearing at first year at Lanka castle may completely change course of a game. I think that even if we drop half of these, Worthy Heroes would remain more than worthy. And base encumbrance 1 for many heroes seems too good.
Base Resource cost for cavalry differs wildly. In many cases heavys have base 1, while in others lights have 3-5. I think it just needs to be decided upon once, then applied across the board.
gods:
Lady of Spring reduced Water skill, pathcost 80, added Forest Survival - seems quite unplayable in such form. Of course, Water+Nature = clam-maker, but I still don't think it so big a problem. And Survival is both quite useless for her and not particularaly thematic!
Monolith - Nature gems production doesn't seem thematic. I think some Luck-increasing would be better. Barring this, Astral gems...
Lawgiver - I think pathcost should be lower, as he is more of a Rainbow Pretender than SC-class. Then he could be more costly...
Nataraja - Astral 2 doesn't seem to be necessary - old way he could be taken magicless as expansion engine or get 1 path needed to bring magic diversity which wasn't necessarily Astral. And Astral bless isn't particularly handy for most nations...
Asynja - I think Glamour would be better for her than magic armor...
Lord of War - as I mentioned, something to improve his actual combat performance is needed. As he started out as mortal and his Dom score reflects it, it's possible to make mag. paths cheaper for him...
Deva - while thematically appropriate for Lanka, etc., doesn't allow bless strategy almost required for them. And none of India-based nations require SC Pretender (it may be taken for Bandar Log to open up Blood, but that's all)...
Mother of Monsters - seems to need either better natural protection or body slot - not creatures spawning... Or regeneration?
Virtue - as I already said, Astral seems to be somewhat redundant. Or it should just replace Air...
EA Marverny Horn Blower appears as a god in some other nations (at least, it did in 1.3.). There seems to be some "Horn Champion" Pretender for Marverny. It, however, lacks #pathcost and so gets it at 50 - surely inappropriate for mortal Pretender (it probably also should have higher stats to reflect his status as hero).
troops, etc.:
"Heavy Ashigaru Armor" sounds silly - these troops were lightly armored by definition. Nor should stealthy Bandits have heavy armor. I understand they aren't very good in melee - but they shouldn't be good! Maybe just making them somewhat cheaper is an answer...
EA Arco scout doesn't need higher morale - if he's fighting, it's already wrong!
EA Arco Chariot Commanders especially doesn't need to be cheap - and considering who they are based upon, it's far better to give them appropriate stats to make them thugs!
Oreiad probably should be somewhat tougher than mere humans - after all, they ARE spirits of the mountains. Then that high seduction would probably not be necessary.
Wind Riders probably shouldn't have lances - especially as in this era such are generally absent...
EA Ermor Equites shouldn't have Warhorse hoof - they aren't mounted on warhorses! And Ermor's strength is in its infantry in any case!
As I've already said, EA Ulm would be better with hatchets... something should probably also be done with their Iron& Steel Warriors...
Sauromatia Warrior Queen costs more than a Priestess. I think it should be vice versa.
Androphage Archers should cost even more - until known bug with poison-always-works arrows will be fixed - both in gold and resources.
EA Caelum Eagle King seems silly to me flying in plate armor - say, weightless scale would be more appropriate.
Bandar Archers shouldn't be Def 8 Mor 10 - they are elite warriors, trained from childhood! And they are not particularly good as archers anyway. If you think them too good, just make them more costly - it would be more appropriate.
Palankasha at 55 seem slightly too costly - and they have the same price in basegame anyway... While Asara seem to have no niche, even at 35...
Slave Troll - what's it??? And R'lyeh isn't the sea nation most needful of help coming on land!
ME Arcos - why new Mounted Commander? if it needs some to bring Elephantes to front, it can carry independents!
Hoplite Commander with Move 1 won't be taken by anyone, at whatever price...
Jotun Hurler has "none" as first weapon...
If Shuten-doji is made more of a thug, it should probably get less Leadership...
Oceania ME should be improved. There was a thread about this, which ended in almost nothing:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39640
LE Ulm Pikeneers don't need higher morale - they are chaff of the nation. At the same time, I think Pikemen should be redone in small teams - like was done with Skavenslaves in Skaven mod - this will both make them less vulnerable to trample and more able to bring dreaded pikehedge to bear.
Jomon Samurai Archers get Pre 10. Though I don't estimate actual samurai archery very high, I still think that from the balance point of view this is a main defence Jomon has from enemy shhoters - so Pre 11 is appropriate...
Bogarus I still think needs total revamping. Still, for now I think that Black Hoods shouldn't have combination of high base resources, full helm and dagger! And I can say you there weren't so armed guys among Russian nomad Foederati! I would offer reduce base resource cost, take cheaper helmet (in my mod it's "Leather Hood") and either some scimitar-type blade, morningstar (unfortunately, there aren't lighter horseman's flail nomads actually used often in the game right now) or just spear.
Malaya Druzhina shouldn't actually have lances, by the way - real lances were used in Russia very rarely (only by Novgorod boyars and Polish/German mercenaries). They can, however, use heavy melee weapons - even glaives were often used from horseback in later period.
I don't think blowpipes should get 2 attacks, even if I agree they suck...
For Horse Tribe cavalry wasteland survival isn't so appropriate - they are plains dwellers, after all...
Hoburg militia seems to lose its slings in this version while they were appropriate...
Bartholomeus th Patriarch got base Encumbrance 6. Shouldn't it be somewhat less?
Hanif - Member of the Third Tier has 13 hp. Isn't it too much?
Hildegard the Heroine is armed with spear and has leather armor. Shouldn't she has something better?
Daidalos the Maker of the Labirinth has reduced stats, but no old age. Shouldn't it be vice versa?
Anthromachus has oldage 10000 and immortality. Why???
King of Legends has just 8 ap. Should be more?
Master with the Iron Crutch should be somewhat tougher..
Abasi (Machaka Hero) as an assassin seems plainly silly. Stealthy thug I think is enough.
Ebuart the Guardian of the Tree gets castle defence. Why?
Dwarf Elder for EA Vanheim gets research bonus. I'd say Forge bonus would be better.
Lug the Long-Handed doesn't have stealth as designer decision (as said by KO). I don't think it good idea to give him one. He is already good, and if you want to improve him, I'd just increase his Forge bonus!

By the way, I agree that Demonwhip should require Blood level to forge!
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  #68  
Old January 19th, 2009, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

I see the reason of several of your points wrana but some of the ones you suggest would be very big changes that go against the purpose of the mod as stated several times by q_m afaik
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  #69  
Old January 19th, 2009, 08:57 PM
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JimMorrison JimMorrison is offline
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

It is an awful big list. And I don't think it's very objective..... You state that starting Astral on the Virtue is pointless/redundant? I for one, use the Virtue. I found her useful in vanilla, and only more so in CBM. Remember, the point of this mod isn't to cater to any particular playstyle, but to open up more options.

Also, I used Asynja as a low-cost-disposable-SC for Vanheim, and she performed admirably at the job. I think, better than she would have with Glamor and no armor.

I think you're mostly just being picky, though I like seeing someone close to the subject matter striving for accuracy in Bogarus, for example. <3
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  #70  
Old January 20th, 2009, 02:31 AM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

Here were some I noted in various places, I don't know if they got fixed:

1. The ermor/pythium multihero has a problem on his attacks.
He references weapons 770++ which are not listed (they are in worthy heros).

Worthy heros has the code, however, they reference secondary effects which are not mentioned in the modders manual, so I have no idea if they work.

Really needs to be fixed as gladiators are pretty pointless otherwise.

2. I also suggest that the golden tusk is probably broken for similar reasons.

3. I have had problem with the Golden Helmets and Golden Scale mail as well.

4. CBM 1.3 lists Axe of hate as Defense 14.
Its actually damage 14, not defense 14.

5. Many people do not play with confusion - but it is devestating in its current incarnation - possibly better than lightning spamming. The number of spell effects 5+ if I recall correctly is simply too high. Bump it up a level either in research or casting requirements (1 air !!!!)

6. Bump umbral back down one level in research. Yes, it is a strong spell. However, Agartha is not a powerhouse contender.

7. Light vs Darkness. Darkness is level 6 - and if someone hasn't researched up the light tree, they can be hosed for a *very very* long time. Make a version of Solar Radiance that doesnt burn eyes or undead - all it does is counter darkness.

8. The Bow of Agonizing death has a shorter range than all other magic bows; it doesn't seem to have been the beneficiary of the bow range update that was otherwise applied across the board.
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