Merkava.

[RERomine]

Don't read too much into what wasn't said. This is what he said...

not very accurate - yes, it's not comfortable, but a merk can carry 2-3 fully loaded combat soldiers in the back without giving up ammo. Merks in combat DID carry 1-2 soldiers in the back specifically for combat purposes (i'm not going to go further) and very successfully.

that doesn't say that the tank is a troop carrier - on the contrary, but it HAS the ability to carry troops even without giving up ammo.

Everything I'm reading is saying they aren't going to off load their ammo to carry 8 men or for that matter a 4-man scout team. From one of the photos out there, it looks like if they had 3 men, the third would be standing on the floor of the turret basket. There could be health risks if the turret is rotated to any degree, but that is only my impression based on the photo so take that worth a grain of salt. Kevin, you raise a similar question that hasn't been answered yet.

5-alef didn't go into any details as to how this tactic is used, which is appropriate and expected, however. Also, emphasized was DID. That honestly can be taken any number of ways, but his intentional vagueness leaves us to draw our own conclusions (in the past; during his experience; obsolete tactic). You might get a vote for 2-3 men, provided isn't a crew served weapons team.

Looking at some of the other photos, I wouldn't take those containers as seats, even though you can certainly sit on them. I wouldn't want to be on one of the handles on top, as they don't look very comfy. I'm not sure what those containers would be.

While there could be more answers, have we really gotten anything we didn't already figure out ourselves?

[kevineduguay1]

I already agreed with all those concerned, whatever amount of infantry carried NO HEAVY OR CREW SERVED WEAPONS.

5-alef says that armored infantry was carried in some tank durring the 2006 Lebanon conflict. But no numbers. I have a funny feeling that any other numbers than the ones I found on a few sites and that are mentioned in a few videos is all that we will be able to find.

The only for sure is that ten soldiers came out of a Merkava MkI the day is was first shown to the public.

The Merkava can carry two stretcher cases inside the tank.

How many men can sit in the space of a standard military stretcher?

[Marek_Tucan]

How many rounds are given up to give space for the stretchers?
And how gutted was that "showtime" Merkava?
And you have numbers. 2-3 fully loaded max., 1-2 usually.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

The only for sure is that ten soldiers came out of a Merkava MkI the day is was first shown to the public.

The Merkava can carry two stretcher cases inside the tank.

How many men can sit in the space of a standard military stretcher?

It is pretty safe that they can indeed squeeze in a full infantry squad or a couple of strecher and assorted medical equipment, a command post or whatever.
The thing is, it appears that these are niche uses which require significant ammo trade offs. Said tanks will be be supported by others and will retain some rounds for self defense or short actions, so for the intended purpose it is not a problem.
You have already been told that with full ammo it is 2-3 combat troops, usually less, which seems reasonable for a tank of that size.
There will inevitably be a gray area between what is expedient and what is doctrine, what is feasible only for special circumstances and what can be used as standard and obviously between the various different models of the tank.
But what everyone here and on tanknet is telling you is that no, you can't have your cake (a full ammo load) and then eat it (carry around a full infantry squad). Given we are talking about a tank apparently not much bigger than others western types and the trade offs inherent in increasing armored volume in an AFV it is hardly surprising.
For it to be different it would raise the question of how it was accomplished, it is not like that every other tank designer is a moron. Even if nobody else was interested in carrying around troops extra ammo or fuel would be always useful, at least as potential. But that cannot be had without paying a price.

They all come in their own container. Could this allow the ammo load to be shifted from the rear compartment to areas around or under the turret basket?

Just because you can squeeze extra ammo in some apparently empty space it does not mean that
1) It won't get in the way of something or someone during actual operations.
2) It will actually remain out of the way once the tank hits the first big pothole or whatever.

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

The Merkava can carry two stretcher cases inside the tank.

How many men can sit in the space of a standard military stretcher?

Given the configuration of the stretchers, I would say you could get four, as long as they are friendly. The photo is obviously of a display model and not in a real vehicle, but the ammo has been remove (aside from the 10 rounds that would be carried elsewhere) which seems to be something no one has said would be done. This is a special configuration and 10 are proposed and supposed to be the the field sometime this year.

[kevineduguay1]

RERomine,

Thanks for posting that picture!

The Merkava "Tankbulance" has a reduced ammo load. No one is saying how reduced but with the whole rear compartmen reconfigurd and the extra equipment etc. it for sure is carrying NO ammo in that area.

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Marcello

Just because you can squeeze extra ammo in some apparently empty space it does not mean that
1) It won't get in the way of something or someone during actual operations.
2) It will actually remain out of the way once the tank hits the first big pothole or whatever.

I'm still not sure where this "own container" thing is coming from. Photos from that website show shipping tubes where the rounds are being removed and ammo resupply taking place, without tubes.

Marcello, I completely agree. Even lap readying a round is frowned up, so having lots of ammo placed randomly within the tank would be ill advised.

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by kevineduguay1

RERomine,

Thanks for posting that picture!

The Merkava "Tankbulance" has a reduced ammo load. No one is saying how reduced but with the whole rear compartmen reconfigurd and the extra equipment etc. it for sure is carrying NO ammo in that area.

Not a problem on the picture. A lot of folks have said they have trouble getting to the site but I don't. While it seems to stretch the facts some, there are a lot of good pictures out there. I figured I would put some of the relevant pictures out here so everyone could see them.

[kevineduguay1]

I had a few that I wanted to post but I kept getting the error message. The Tankbulance was one of them.

I belive thet on that site or one of the links you will find pics of those shell sleaves/protectors stuffed into the baskets at the rear of the tank. I to saw the pic of the crew loading unprotected rounds. It just makes no sence unless its an older Mk and the rounds are going to be repacked into the larger ammo crates.

Those sleaves are supposed to help prevent cook offs. The older bins held 2 or 4 rounds.

[RERomine]

I found the reference to the individual fire-proof canisters, but I don't think we've seen any pictures of them. The photo with the containers on the road, I'm sure those are just shipping tubes. Somewhere in the tank are the fire-proof canisters, so the rounds are removed from the shipping tube and loaded into the canisters. The upright ammo in the road is probably just some intermediate step, where the rounds have been removed from the shipping tubes, but not been stowed in the fire-proof canisters within the tank yet.

As to the caliber of the ammo, they look like 120mm rounds, but don't have combustible casings. The tank doesn't appear to be a Merk IV, because I don't see the rearward facing camera. I'm pretty sure it isn't a Merk I, also. That leaves Merk II or Merk III. If they are 105mm rounds, it is a II, if 120mm a III. Overall, I don't think it matters.