Proportions mod Version 2.2 released

[PvK]

That's weird. I'm really swamped at present - if you have time and inclination to test it, please try changing the sMB weapon family number to something else in components.txt, and see if this changes the design.

PvK

[PDF]

Originally posted by PvK:
There is already something like this, that I'm not sure if you've noticed yet or not. The small starliner with standard bridge is the low-tech model for transporting population, and is slow and expensive and so on. With research into ship construction and/or cargo and/or starliner modules, however, you can use the "Basic Bridge," "Basic Life Support," and "Starliner Module" components, and also transport hulls will about 30% maintenance reduction, to reduce costs of pop transports. Higher levels of research allow more population to be stuffed onto ships of different sizes, too. It does take some time to develop this technology, of course.

Or did you already know about all that, and think there should be more to reduce the maintenance costs?

PvK

Thks PvK, indeed I didn't know - I play a PBW Proportion 2.1 game but never dived into 2.2 !

Anyway my idea was to generally reduce costs of Liners even without any high tech just to see faster colony development, and those low maint/combat unable comps looked right, and simpler than the "module" system. But I have to experience it more before talking again

[oleg]

Originally posted by PvK:
That's weird. I'm really swamped at present - if you have time and inclination to test it, please try changing the sMB weapon family number to something else in components.txt, and see if this changes the design.

PvK

Yes, it is an overlap in weapon family numbers that drives AI crazy.

[oleg]

PvK,

Add "Ancient Ruins" and "Planet - Change Ground Defense" to small scaners and ECM, AI makes fighters with extra engines.

[PDF]

PvK - and Derek too
I've found that developing Research and Intel is real sloooow in your mods (more than production): the Research and Intel Centers are indeed very weak, at 100 Research/200 Intel ea.
In addition lvl II and III just add a paltry 20% each... Who wants level III research center at 140 RPs ?? Ridiculous...

So we have either to waste precious facility space with that junk, or go for "general" facilities (cities...) that just produce a few Research and Intel too !

Why not boost the Centers by at least x2 or x5 (or make small/medium/large ones), adjusting costs accordingly ?
Waddaya think ?

Facilities are a

[Derek]

Been thinking about that, as I have also noticed research is incedibly slow. Probably will be changed in next release, but not drastically so.

Derek

[PvK]

Originally posted by oleg:
PvK,

Add "Ancient Ruins" and "Planet - Change Ground Defense" to small scaners and ECM, AI makes fighters with extra engines.

Oh ya I remember that now - will do, thanks.

[PvK]

Originally posted by oleg:
Yes, it is an overlap in weapon family numbers that drives AI crazy.

Thanks Oleg - will fix!

[PvK]

PDF, Proportions is designed to try to be realistically slow, and to make research and colony development take so long that they require long-term strategic thinking.

For research speed, I am also trying to address what I see as two major issues with the standard set:

1) Research is way too fast in the standard set, which tends to reduce the usefulness of a large part of the tech tree. Low and intermediate tech levels are often not used by humans because it only takes a very short time to max out a tech, and so on. In Proportions, for most of the techs, you aren't even really expected to reach the highest level of very many of them in the course of an entire game. That way, in theory and hopefully in practive, research remains interesting and varied throughout the game.

2) The basic system where research labs ADD progress directly, and where an empire can focus ALL of its research on any project from month to month, is not at all accurate. Also, adding some research facilities on colony worlds just isn't going to multiply the rate of a civilization's tech progress. It may give it an important advantage, but it's not going to multiply it. This is why Proportions research facilities only produce small amounts of additive speed (per turn) compared to the entire homeworld.

While I think the pace is pretty close to realistic, it does also make the game advance pretty slowly, and there are some ways to change the pace of play without breaking the desired effects.

More powerful and expensive research facilities are probably in order. Foundations mod had those, but I took them out for simplicity and because they had interesting new tech requirements which weren't completely developed enough to add for Proportions. I'll look at adding something back in.

For faster-progressing games without breaking the basic Proportions model, I recommend:

1) Go to settings.txt and multiple the planet and homeworld value lines by up to 2.5 (the max that currently works for Homeworlds). i.e.:

Planet Value High Percent := 250
...
Plr Planet Value Low := 150
Plr Planet Value Medium Percent := 200
Plr Planet Value High Percent := 250

(this will only affect newly-started quadrants)

2) Set research cost to Low in game settings.

Those are a couple of easy ways. You can also of course also do multiple-homeworld starts, which directly multiplies the production and research rate, of course, but is also kind of weird having so many homeworlds.

PvK

[Tenryu]

PVK,
You could ask MM to add an EVENT Type or Types such as: "Research - Complete project" or "Research - Add Points" or "Research - Multiply(labs) by n" ,then scatter a few of these around the Events file with different values. That might well simulate sudden unexpected breakthroughs and such.