Big Problem - Unbalanced random events

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by Inigo Montoya:
Jaif, I totally agree. It's the 1/4th population disaster that frustrates me to no end. I pick +3 Order and +1 Luck and still have my capital hit with the 1/4th nuke...

Incredible fury is generated which completely contradicts my otherwise adoration for Dominions II.

You think losing 1/4 population is bad? On one of my mosehansen games, turn 10, with Luck _3_, I get a random (Tidal Wave) that wiped out 40% of a province, leaving it with 9500.

I'm sure the people of the province are thankful they live in a land of such wondrous luck: "Ayup, half my family and neighbors were wiped out - but I'm lucky - I ain't got a nail in my boot."

Like you, I'm immensely bothered, upset, frustrated, by the random events and so-called "Luck" in Dom 2.

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ROFL! Love the comment about the nails.

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya:
Either nerf the 1/4th event or add a 1/4th population growth event. The way population works now, you can easily eliminate population, but there is no easy way to increase it.

As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the population growth event would have to be higher than the population death event, or it's not even. In the case of a 1/4th (population goes to 3/4ths of original), you would need an event that increase the population to 4/3rds (an extra 33%, IOW) to even it out.

Bayushi Tasogare

[SelfishGene]

Well now that ive seen the light im not all -that-certain the luck scales are imbalanced.

Remember, and just by the descriptions if not actually experience, the Magic and Luck scales go together. Ive seen the light i think . 1500 free twice makes a horse's mouth very attractive.

Remember population is just income. Its worse to endure if you get hit with a 1/4 loss in your capital (which happened to me early in a multi game, bleh) but its just income lost. So you lose 50/turn in your capital. 30 turns? Does this equal or surpass the bonus resources given during the same time with high luck? I don't have enough data to make a judgement.

[johan osterman]

[quote]Originally posted by Cainehill:

You think losing 1/4 population is bad? On one of my mosehansen games, turn 10, with Luck _3_, I get a random (Tidal Wave) that wiped out 40% of a province, leaving it with 9500.

I'm sure the people of the province are thankful they live in a land of such wondrous luck: "Ayup, half my family and neighbors were wiped out - but I'm lucky - I ain't got a nail in my boot."

Like you, I'm immensely bothered, upset, frustrated, by the random events and so-called "Luck" in Dom 2.

You have a 4:1 luck to unluck ratio with luck +3. While it doesnt make you immune it certainly alters the odds significantly in favor of luck events. And as you can see from some Posts in this thread not everybody agrees that the badluck effects hurts more then you benefit from goodluck. In dom 1 you could make yourself practically immune to bad luck events by choosing the correct scales, then people complained that they never got to see any bad luck events because because everybody allways played with those scales and there were requests for an adjustment of the scales so more bad luck events would hit you even with optimal scales. Now when that change has been made people are complaining for the opposite reason.

Many players tend to overvalue losses compared to gains (and I would argue that both Mr Cainehill and Mr Montya in this thread are guilty of this), a 25-40% poploss of the home province in one of the early turns is from time to time lauded in this forum as a reason to quit a SP or maybe even giving up in MP. That is obviously a setback but it does not come close to approaching the loss of income you will incur by choosing order 0 or even -3. Starting with order -3 instead of +3 represents a permanent 33% income loss in the home province, well on par with many of the worst events. And this income loss will come to affect most if not all of your provinces. The occasional poploss events is unlikely to ever come close to having such a negative impact on your overall economy. If anything both bad and good luck events should be cranked up.

EDIT: On pop loss in general: It is not an oversight that population decreses it is a design choice, there is a global war between would be Gods going on, people die. There is also game mechanic reasons why opportunities to farm population are sparse. We did not want dominions to have the sort of population farming and herding mechanisms that many civ like games have suffered from.

[ March 28, 2004, 20:56: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[SurvivalistMerc]

Fortunately, the devs have given us the ability to mod the scales.

As I understand it, the scales can be modded such that no unlucky events ever occur in luck 3 dominion. But keep in mind that some of your provinces will not be in your full dominion effect. And one thing that makes misfortune somewhat attractive is that "hostile" lucky dominion I believe still prevents certain unlucky events.

Even when I take luck 3 I have yet to see the 1500 gold event. Maybe I need to take other scales too. I don't know.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
Fortunately, the devs have given us the ability to mod the scales.

True enough. You can alter them for your own enjoyment as you play. Maybe even offer the mod to others who feel the same way. (someone asked in another thread if this game had any chaeat codes. One of the answers was MOD)

But I wouldnt expect it to get general acceptance. Especially not to the point that you will ever be able to play using it in a multiplayer game. As I understand it ALL of the games players have to run the same mods. Still I think some mod changs have been useful in convincing people that the original settings were a pretty good idea after all.

[SelfishGene]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:

Even when I take luck 3 I have yet to see the 1500 gold event. Maybe I need to take other scales too. I don't know.

I'm almost 100% certain you need some +magic scale as well. Remember the description of the scale talks about luckily finding magic objects. Although whether its 2 or 3 magic i can't say.

[alexti]

I think many underestimate +500 gold event in the early game. You can buy a lot of extra troops or hire couple of mercenary bands. Either way, it's 1 turn bonus to your expansion plan. Comparing to that 1/4 population loss is not that bad. Even it happens in your home province, the impact is not felt immediately and by the time income loss has accumulated (to let's say 500 gold), you already have many other provinces, so probably getting +500 gold and 1/4 population loss in the capital on the same turn is a good event.

Those extra gems events also may be underestimated, if you get right gems it boosts your plans a lot (making important item one turn earlier or summoning one turn earlier). Considering, that these extra gem events are happening quite often, they have significant positive effect.

The really bad event, probably worst I've seen is to lose the lab. Early in the game you lose 200 gold and one turn worth of research. And this even can't happen in unimportant province, because you don't have labs there. Even later in the game when the importance of the random events is much smaller, losing a lab in the research center is quite bad. Again one turn research loss

But if you get really good event (+1500 gold) and loss of lab on the same turn, is it positive or not? I'm not sure, maybe it depends on the nation.

So far, it luck/misfortune seem to be balanced to me, but whether the perfect balance is achieved or not, nobody probably knows.

[Mandalore]

The worst event possible is this.

I was playing Ulm during the demo and on my first turn, an earthquake struck and obliterated my temple. Now normally temple losses arn't really bad, but it was my only temple. Thus I could build no preists to build more temples, and my pretender could not build temples either. My dominion was 3 luck as well so it was simply the luck of the draw I guess. Needless to say I restarted. But by far that is the most crippling event I have had happen early in game.

Thanks

[ March 29, 2004, 03:13: Message edited by: Mandalore ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Mandalore:
Now normally temple losses arn't really bad, but it was my only temple.

You could have appointed your starting commander as the prophet, and had him build your temple.