Gas Prices

[El_Phil]

Buy a diesel car or a hybrid. Get a hydrogen cell conversion done on your own car. There's nothing stoping you doing those things. There's alternatives. But the key thing is: They aren't as good or are more expensive.

Refining is different for the various products, the huge amount of petrol that some countries **cough The US cough** use means that many refineries are dedicated just to petrol, and indeed use various fractions of the oil that could very easily be made into other products with far less work. Oh and did you miss my post a while back? The price of DVD-Rs and other high grade plastic items is going up, more than it should but it is.

When a plastic goes from very cheap to just cheap it doesn't make much difference to the final price, unless the finished product is all plastic and is cheap itself. For almost everything else the plastic is such a tiny amount of the total cost that the price could go up an order of magnitude and many firms wouldn't notice.

[Xrati]

Well if the "ALTERNATIVE$" aren't really alternatives, then there is no real competition. Why would you chose to use something that would cost you more to use? We need more competition for fuel sources and alternative fuel sources. Are we going to wait until the last drop of oil is sucked from this planet to start looking for them!
As far as plastics go, the volume used versus the cost increase is almost insignificant. It's probably only pennies a part, BUT the almighty quest for PROFIT will justify a larger then needed price increase.
We, as an overall society, have become totally dependant on oil byproducts. For the future of the planet and the children of the world we need to find other sources of energy!!! AND it's just not happening! Maybe this is the boot in the ARSE that we need,

[El_Phil]

So your complaining that the cheapest option is, in fact, still the cheapest option?

You been a card carrying Commie long, or has it just taken slightly more expensive petrol to convice you that capitalism is evil?

That clearly is where the USSR went wrong. "Come to Mother Russia, we have cheap petrol!" They'd have won the cold war no problem.

[Atrocities]

Just look at China to see where Russa went wrong. China is still communist and doing quite well. What did they do that Russa did not? Not that I would ever want to live in either country.

[Xrati]

Do you understand what "Competition" is? It's what used to drive this country. The competition for your business was the reason for 'customer support' and advertising. If your given one choice, which choice would you make. The US has long been a world leader in marketing 'Democracy', yet they are now involved protecting 'Monopolism' (my word for it). They encourage big companies to buy out all their competition and leave us with the freedom to make "ONE" choice. They pass laws to protect companies (cable, phone) within State and Cities to eliminate any competition.
Until there is an alternative to oil/gas we have no choice because we HAVE to pay what the Oil Companies want. Don't kid yourself that there is any competition between the different Gas companies. They all support each other.

[El_Phil]

No war profitering is what drove the US. Selling arms to any country that had money, whatever their ideology.

Why on earth would the oil firms support each other in the the petrol biz? It is not worth that much effort as the potential rewards are, in the scheme of things, tiny and the punishment if caught immense. Remember Standard Oil?

The higher petrol goes in price, the more attractive other systems become. Hell perhaps some Americans may start walking places.... Only joking.

One simple question: Oil is now more expensive, hence petrol is more expensive. So why the hell shouldn't you pay more for it? No one is making massive extra profits off petrol, it's still:

Cost of oil + refining costs + Misc cost (transport, etc) + thin profit margin = Pump price.

Either the price of petrol goes up or the oil firms start making a loss on every gallon of petrol. It costs more to make, so of course it costs more to buy at the pump. You have nothing at all to complain about, it's like complaining that Strawberries are expensive in November. When things are rare they cost more.

[FJ_MD]

El_Phil said:
Buy a diesel car .......

Hey! I have a diesel car and it rocks!

[Phoenix-D]

El_Phil said:
Either the price of petrol goes up or the oil firms start making a loss on every gallon of petrol. It costs more to make, so of course it costs more to buy at the pump. You have nothing at all to complain about, it's like complaining that Strawberries are expensive in November. When things are rare they cost more.

Try this one.

The cost of a barrel of oil goes up, so the cost of gas goes up.

Except that barrel of oil will not be arriving at gas stations as gas for WEEKS. The gas currently being sold is the gas made from the much lower priced oil!

[Xrati]

That's a good point Phoenix, but that is not the point I'm trying to make. My point is not that gas should be cheaper or that strawberries should be more expensive in winter. My point is that competition drives prices down and keeps companies looking for better ways (cheaper) of producing their product. WE HAVE NO CHOICE right now! If you don't use gas or diesel, what do you use? The auto industry hasn't exactly embraced hybrid cars until just recently. I'm not even going to argue the point that Americans should walk more, I agree with that. I fill my car up once a month and I walk whenever possible so like I said in an earlier post, We need to use cars when we need them, instead of wasting resources.

El_Phil, I am not a "card carrying Commie". I think if I were one, we wouldn't be here on this board expressing our thoughts and the Internet would have never exisited.

[El_Phil]

Well Phoenix yes that is true, but it's also true that when the price of oil goes down so does the price of petrol. You cannot have it both ways.

Xrati: 1. Why should the US car trade make efficient cars or develop hybrids? Most US consumers just wanted a big engine and plenty of crushed velour interiors. That or a F150 pickup truck. Fuel efficient cars and hybrids didn't sell.The US was offered the choice and didn't choose it, now your living with the consequences.
2. So you invented the internet? Bugger me rigid! There was me thinking it was a combination of work by DARPA and Sir Tim Berners-Lee. Clearly I was wrong and it was in fact all your work. Truly you learn something every day.