Question about Ukraine OOB...

[MarkSheppard]

BTW, copy pasta from /k/:

Current Attrition rates of Western military equipment in Ukraine

(According to Oryx, all visually confirmed -- LOST includes damaged and destroyed)

Tanks
Leopard 2A6 (21) - Lost (9) - (43%)
Leopard 2A4 (54) - Lost (7) - (13%)
M-55s - (28) - Lost (2) - (7%)
Challenger 2 (14) - Lost (1) - (7%)
PT-91 Twardy (60) - Lost (2) - (3%)
Leopard 1A5 (165) - Lost (0) - (0%)
Strv 122s (10) - Lost (0) - (0%)

AFVs
AMX-10 RC (40) - Lost (4) - (10%)

IFVs
Bradley M2A2 (182) - Lost (53) - (29%)
YPR-765 (196) - Lost (48) - (24%)
CV90 (50) - Lost (3) - (6%)
KTO Rosomak (200) - Lost (1) - (0.5%)
Marder (40) - Lost (0) - (0%)

APC
M113 (778) - Lost (66) - (8%)
FV103 Spartan (114) - Lost (3) - (3%)
VAB (60) Delivered - Lost (12) - (20%)
Patria Pasi (20) - Lost (7) - (35%)
Bushmaster (90) - Lost (8) - (9%)
Stryker - (157) - Lost (3) - (2%)

[MarkSheppard]

For all his whining, Mustang has a point...at what point do we consider a type extinct in service?

Russian Ground Forces had (on paper) 557 T-80 variants pre-war. Of this, 396 have been lost (71%) since the war started.

Elsewhere, SIPRI said Russia had about 112~ Ka-52 Alligators in 2019. Oryx has visual evidence of 43 Ka-52 losses. (38.3%) One actually just crashed on a training flight earlier this month and one was just shot down outside of Robotyne:

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/s...35784827826365
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/s...22168301236226

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

https://www.militarytoday.com/apc/m2_bradley.htm

At the time of its introduction the Bradley was the first IFV with a fully-stabilized main gun.

Please note that this is the initial M2A0 Bradley from 1981 -- at the time all this was very $$$$$ -- the UK Warrior IFV doesn't have stabilization even today.

The other article I cited said stabilizers were a new feature in 2006. It's illogical that the main gun would be stabilized but not a missile launch.

In any case full stabilization is a SA feature and Ukraine doesn't have it, hence the game is incorrect.

BTW, copy pasta from /k/:

How do you not recognize Mustang, jidf?

Alligators in 2019. Oryx has visual evidence of 43 Ka-52 losses. (38.3%) One actually just crashed on a training flight earlier this month and one was just shot down outside of Robotyne

The difference is Russia is continually building new equipment whereas although America is also building equipment, there is no consistent plan to send them to Ukraine. But I'm fine with removing any Russian equipment you believe is gone.

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by Mustang

As it happens there's only one video of a bradley firing its weapons, I'm not sure if the FISTV are fully armed either.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/05/europ...cmd/index.html

Yet southward progress is precisely what the Ukrainian soldiers with the call signs Karatsupa, Pan and Taba seek, driving their American-made Bradley Fighting Vehicles down a road that is also, they believe, the road to Ukrainian victory.

Every day, under relentless fire, they drive fresh troops in and spent ones out, with just 30 seconds to make the swap on the battlefield.

“I’ve been serving since 2014 and I’ve never encountered such minefields anywhere. Just hectares of them, to the left and to the right,” said Karatsupa. “A lot of trenches, dugouts. And all this for dozens of kilometers. They even throw mines at the territory we are taking. Without the mines, we would already be in Tokmak.”

....

But without the Bradleys, say the men, no one would have survived. They proudly showed CNN some of the direct artillery hits the US-made armored vehicles had taken, singing their praises repeatedly

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/05/europ...cmd/index.html

Yet southward progress is precisely what the Ukrainian soldiers with the call signs Karatsupa, Pan and Taba seek, driving their American-made Bradley Fighting Vehicles down a road that is also, they believe, the road to Ukrainian victory.

Every day, under relentless fire, they drive fresh troops in and spent ones out, with just 30 seconds to make the swap on the battlefield.

“I’ve been serving since 2014 and I’ve never encountered such minefields anywhere. Just hectares of them, to the left and to the right,” said Karatsupa. “A lot of trenches, dugouts. And all this for dozens of kilometers. They even throw mines at the territory we are taking. Without the mines, we would already be in Tokmak.”

....

But without the Bradleys, say the men, no one would have survived. They proudly showed CNN some of the direct artillery hits the US-made armored vehicles had taken, singing their praises repeatedly

You are proving my point, my point is they are using them as transports and not weapons.

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by Mustang

It's illogical that the main gun would be stabilized but not a missile launch.

TOW has always been "Stop to raise launcher, fire and guide missiles until impact" since 1981. I know they've talked about wireless TOW as an enhancement; but the big bugaboo has been retaining compatibility with existing BFV launchers and FCS.

In any case full stabilization is a SA feature and Ukraine doesn't have it, hence the game is incorrect.

Bradley has always had stabilization for the chaingun since 1981

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by Mustang

You are proving my point, my point is they are using them as transports and not weapons.

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/...94618533527730

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/...94004193448307

https://twitter.com/GloOouD/status/1670766461248307202

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/...94618533527730

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/...94004193448307

https://twitter.com/GloOouD/status/1670766461248307202

In the videos you posted it is evident the gun is not stabilized. But anyway, you did find it was able to fire weapons, but you also proved the sight is not stabilized.

In the third video there is no Oryx loss traceable to the incident so they are firing at nothing.

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by Mustang

In the videos you posted it is evident the gun is not stabilized.

From TM 9-2350-252-10-2 for the Bradley.

[MarkSheppard]

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA147208.pdf

BRADLEY INFANTRY FIGHTING VEHICLE PROCEDURES GUIDE: COMMANDER AND GUNNER (FEBRUARY 1984)

PDF Page 19, says that step #7 in shutting down the turret to exit the vehicle is to MOVE TO OFF...the STAB SWITCH.

This is a manual from 1984, for the M2A0 -- we know this because the M2A1 was not introduced until 1986.