Favorite Star Trek episode

[Loser]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Most ambitious leaders throughout history have been rather religious.

eh?

Well, it's only anecdotal evidence, but: Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Hussein (ambition there, not so much success), no really enthusiastic religion there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Fyron]

I was talking about the whole of history, not recent times. Atheism is much more accepted in the modern eras than it has been in ancient eras.

Though, Stalin and Hitler did kill a lot of people because of their religious views... my initial comment had nothing to do with the person in charge being especially religious...

[ January 09, 2004, 02:36: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
again, it's ambitious leader's who were probably athiests and intollerance.

Also, keep in mind that throughout history, there has been in general an inverse relation between religious devotion and tolerance.

[ January 09, 2004, 02:43: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Also, keep in mind that throughout history, there has been in general an inverse relation between religious devotion and tolerance.

how do you measure religious devotion if people aren't killing each other over it? no, really. some merchant in 200BC makes 2,000GP, makes a record of it, tell me people aren't going to assume he wasn't religious if he doesn't include religeon in his financial records, which he probably won't. and how do you know his religious devotion isn't peacefull? i would say that during times of war is when religious retoric is used the most(keeping in mind that retoric just means arguments and is not a value judgement) so how do you get an accurate count of religious devotion when peacefull people are generally quieter about there religeon than violent people? plus, of course, in times of crisis, people will be more religious. they may lapse after, in which case it was need, not faith.

aside from all my other arguements.

[ January 09, 2004, 06:54: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[JurijD]

I agree with Pinky here

Saying that god is the caouse of death is as silly as saying its the guns fault... I didn't kill him, the gun did.

you have to remember that: The devil can always quote the bible to suit his/her needs.

Yes people often used religion as an excuse for wars BUT whoever STICKS to the modern ideals of these great world religions (Islam, Christianity, Budism, Hinduism etc.) is a person who is peaceful and tolerant.

[gregebowman]

It seems to me that the Spanish were rather brutal in their conVersion process. Anyone remember the Inquisition? It was convert or die. NOw, what kind of choise is that? Give up my god or go to face him/her/it? I'm glad we live in a more enlightened time (not counting the extreme muslims) and country (if you live in the US). At least most of us can choose our religion nowadays, instead of having it forced down our throats.

[Fyron]

You have missed the point entirely... I never said that all religious people are bad or anything of the sort. Or that "god" killed people. Difference in cultural values is most often what precipitates and allows wars to occur. Religion is a big part of that. Historically, people generally have a much higher tendency to accept wars fought specifically against "heathens" than against "normal people." Most wars throughout history can be traced back to having either a religious cause or high level religious support.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

and what i'm saying is that those were intollerant periods, not nessasarily intollerent religeons.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
It seems to me that the Spanish were rather brutal in their conVersion process. Anyone remember the Inquisition? It was convert or die. NOw, what kind of choise is that? Give up my god or go to face him/her/it? I'm glad we live in a more enlightened time (not counting the extreme muslims) and country (if you live in the US). At least most of us can choose our religion nowadays, instead of having it forced down our throats.

Don’t take this wrong, but the Inquisition was spread throughout Europe. Not to all parts, and even in the areas it happened it was not evenly applied, punished, tortured, um whatever. It is more of a Hollywood notion, the “Spanish Inquisition” (which I take it you are referring to) than to an actual Spanish only Inquisition as the name may imply, and thus mislead some. I hope this proves to be some good info, if not and you already new than just disregard.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by boromeo:
What was your favorite original Star Trek episode ?

For me it was The Doomsday machine

I d like to hear what yours was..

Anyway back to the topic anyone? Trouble with Tribbles hands down. Where DID you send them Mr. Spock? The Klingons baby, yaaa, lets get grooovy!

[ January 09, 2004, 19:44: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]