SE:V, I'll be honest

[Theonlystd]

arthurtuxedo said:

Did you shudder to think of the time wasted on SE4's graphics, which were hugely improved over SE3? Or SE3's improvement over SE2? I wasn't around this board until just after SE4 was released, but I'm sure a lot of people did complain about how Aaron shouldn't have been focusing on graphics in the buildup to SE4, too.

All the complaints about the graphics just confuses me. Either they're complaining because Aaron supposedly focused on "flashy 3D graphics over gameplay", or they're pointing out that the graphics are the opposite of flashy, and are in fact quite dated. Well, which is it? And can any of you look me straight in the face and tell me you would pay $40 if the game looked exactly like SE4 with a few new effects? Did you pay full price for SE4 Gold when you already had SE4? I sure as hell didn't. When you release a sequel, everything should be improved, including the graphics. If these graphics complainers would really listen to themselves, I think they'd realize the absurdity of their complaints.

2d Graphics in line to the lasts game graphics prolly a bit easier then designing 3d graphics.. I wasnt around either so no idea. But this kind of game i dont care about the graphcis.. Yes the 3d graphics are horrible that doesnt mean alot of time wasnt invested in them cause making lots of such graphics isnt easy. Not to mention i find it an uneeded drain on processing and such.

And yes i would gladly pay 40,50 for a game that improves the gameplay,ai,interface and does nothing with the graphics. As long as i can tell the difference bewteen different ships and planets i dont much care.

Tim_Ward said:

Like you could in SEIV or SEIII, you mean? Let's be honest; the SE series has always been a bit of a UI disaster area. I can remember having the same thoughts back when I got the SEIV demo. You end up getting your teeth and getting used to it, though, because it's by far the best 4x series on the market.

No sadly but come on this is the 5th game. I doubt im the only one who thought that double clicking to bring up construction que's would be handy..This would be the kind of improvment id expect in the 5 release of such a game. These are the kind of things that keep me from being able to get any of my friends to play.. Mix bad UI stuff with a rather complex game and they all think its way to hard.

[Tim_Ward]

Mix bad UI stuff with a rather complex game and they all think its way to hard.

Their loss.

[wrongshui]

Modelling and texturing a primitive 3D model is about as time consuming as making 8 different 2D pictures for a ship.

[Captain Kwok]

wrongshui said:
Modelling and texturing a primitive 3D model is about as time consuming as making 8 different 2D pictures for a ship.

Not necessarily. Many people are already created 3d models for the 2d sets to start...

[Raapys]

And can any of you look me straight in the face and tell me you would pay $40 if the game looked exactly like SE4 with a few new effects?

I'd probably be more positive about buying the game if that was the case, actually. Then I'd know that the money would have been used for gameplay/AI improvement, not spent on developing a fairly needless(to me) 3D engine, which, from what Aaron said in the latest interview, was the hardest and most time-consuming feature to implement in SEV.

For that matter, I'd probably pay 40$ just to get a ground-breaking AI update alone.

Besides, the Football Manager( former Championship Manager) series are good examples of games where players are more than happy to pay full price even if it's just for some very minor tweaking and an updated player database.

[arthurtuxedo]

Theonlystd said:2d Graphics in line to the lasts game graphics prolly a bit easier then designing 3d graphics.. I wasnt around either so no idea. But this kind of game i dont care about the graphcis.. Yes the 3d graphics are horrible that doesnt mean alot of time wasnt invested in them cause making lots of such graphics isnt easy. Not to mention i find it an uneeded drain on processing and such.

I'm not sure at all that it would have been less time consuming to make a new 2D graphics engine. In many cases, 3D is actually easier because you don't have to come up with a whole new graphic for each and every facing, animation, and different configuration.

And yes i would gladly pay 40,50 for a game that improves the gameplay,ai,interface and does nothing with the graphics. As long as i can tell the difference bewteen different ships and planets i dont much care.

I believe you, but the majority of gamers, even niche gamers, want to see some improvement after 6 years or they won't plunk down $40. And let's face it, the graphics vs. gameplay argument is a false dilemma anyway. Improved graphics can lead to improved gameplay. For instance, the new real time combat system wouldn't have been possible without the 3D graphics. You could have had a real time system with 2D, sure, but the ships wouldn't be able to pass over and under each other and planets, and I can't imagine how it would have worked with a lot of ships if they can't occupy the same square.

Let's also not forget that "gameplay" should be taken to mean the entire gaming experience, which includes the graphics. If they're an eyesore, it does drag down the gameplay.

[Captain Kwok]

I can understand complaints about how the UI is clunky or the demo is buggy or the AI isn't optimized, but I can't see how SE players can argue that game mechanics were not improved or gameplay was sacrificed. Seriously the unfair combat of SE:IV was eliminated, ground combat was at least expanded, improvements were made to construction point usage, unit individualization, research, customizable lists, etc - and that's not even talking about the modding capabilities of SE:V versus SE:IV.

[Theonlystd]

arthurtuxedo said:

I'm not sure at all that it would have been less time consuming to make a new 2D graphics engine. In many cases, 3D is actually easier because you don't have to come up with a whole new graphic for each and every facing, animation, and different configuration.

I believe you, but the majority of gamers, even niche gamers, want to see some improvement after 6 years or they won't plunk down $40. And let's face it, the graphics vs. gameplay argument is a false dilemma anyway. Improved graphics can lead to improved gameplay. For instance, the new real time combat system wouldn't have been possible without the 3D graphics. You could have had a real time system with 2D, sure, but the ships wouldn't be able to pass over and under each other and planets, and I can't imagine how it would have worked with a lot of ships if they can't occupy the same square.

Let's also not forget that "gameplay" should be taken to mean the entire gaming experience, which includes the graphics. If they're an eyesore, it does drag down the gameplay.

The guy above said.. Aaron said it was time consuming and hard. And tahts what i usually hear.. I've never seen a devloper go Thankfully this edition we've upgraded to 3d graphics and it saved alot of time over the old 2d engine.


And yes graphics are part of gameplay.. Just in games like this a very unimportant part to me. And plenty of games succeed with little or even no graphics. Refer to FM series or the Ootp series.. I dont play 4x games to admire the graphics..Ill buy dominion 3 they really didnt do anything to the graphics...

Im sure they could of figured out something in the 2d engine.. Maybe the real time space combat will be good enough to make up for the crapdom that is the graphics in the rest of the game. Wont know tell i get to partake in large battles againist the Ai.

[Possum]

Cube said:
Whoever designed the SE4 UI needs to come back and work on SE5. As it stands now, the interface is much too cluttered and busy, i.e. too many visual elements and no distinct organizational layout.

The SE4 UI had a minimalist technical feel and out-of-your-way quality that presented the game perfectly. It also had a cohesive graphical motif that gave it a palpable professionalism.

As SE5 stands at the moment (with its Starcraft command interface and OS X menu dock), it looks like someone just installed a badly designed WindowBlinds theme from 1998.

Hear him! Thank you for articulating what I hadn't the wit to say for myself

[Thermodyne]

Well here is my two cents. The UI is clumsy and ruins the game play. This version will have a hard time fitting into slot 5 of the SE saga. It is missing that special something that the other versions had. With 2 and 3, I spent hours and hours playing in the beginning. With 4 it took a little longer to warm up to, but was still an evolution of the series. This one looks like/plays like a knock off. IMHO we have traded game strategy for eye candy. For those of us who loved SE3, this is quite a ways off the path. I wish MM all the best and I hope the game sells well, but as it is now, I don’t think this will be my cup of tea.

PS:

I was going to skip this part, but the days that I have the energy to post are too few of late.

I have to wonder as to the direction that the SE series is taking. It is becoming less of a strategy game and more of a FX game with each new version. I am left wondering who has the greatest amount of influence on the evolution of the game.