Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod (and summary file) 1.1

[Morkilus]

It'd be nice if it also included some of the bug fixes that are possible with mods, such as the hydra fix and the demonbred's age. I appreciate you guys' hard work!

[BigJMoney]

I probably asked this last year, but I haven't played in a while and things have possibly changed since then: Have the touch attack spells been changed at all? In particular have any of Dom3's healing spells been made more feasible? The biggest problem I have is that it's hard to get your caster to reliably cast the spells at all (ie. they either stay away from battle, or directly engage, but rarely ever get up close and heal).

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[quantum_mechani]

I intended to to have the 1.2 version out last weekend, but it looks like it's going to have to wait for this coming weekend. I do intended to incorporate as many base game bug fixes as possible.

On touch and healing spells: many of them have been boosted, but it's very difficult to have them function as intended by IW and still have a niche.

[Sombre]

Couple more nations' summons looked at.



ARCOSCEPHALE EA

Summon Sirrush - DUAL PATH - 1 / 10 vanilla. Honestly these things are already pretty cool. They're size 6 but get 3 attacks at str 22, good attack skill, 80hp, they're sacred, great mr of 16, prot 15. However they could probably do with a little discount just to reward people for using this tasty unit. 1 / 8 would be better. Note that Ctis uses a similar spell called Contact Sirrush with path requirements they can meet. I suggest the same there.


ULM EA

Sloth of Bears - 8 / 15 - To bring it in line with improved animal summoning spells in general and to make it not suck, I suggest 8 / 8 and bump it to research level 4/5 instead of 3. Most importantly, the unit 'Great Bear' #694 currently has att 9 def 7, this needs to be higher, like att 11 def 10 at least. Additionally the Great Bear unit only has a claw attack, when it would make total sense for it to have Claw and Bite. With these changes, the bears would have some nice offensive power.

Pack of Wolves - 20 / 25 - Wow, this one needs to be improved. I'd basically stick it at 12 / 7 and have it pretty much replace summon animals, while still being different.

[Sombre]

Just looked over TC's national summons. It's hard to figure the balance of these somtimes, but they're such cool units (national summons generally) that encouraging their usage can't really be a bad thing.

TIENCHI EA


Celestial Servant - DUAL PATH - 1 / 3 - It isn't too bad a summon, though it's hard to use these guys in combat - as meatshields they have low prot and as fighters they only have one attack at size 5 and that's at att 8. They are sacred however. I'd like to see them at 3 / 8 so they can be used in some sort of bless strat, and either the rake weapon set to att 0 def 0 or the servant bumped to att 10 def 10 instead of 9-9; they are supposed to be bad fighters, but 10 10 with a -1 -1 weapon is already bad.


Heavenly Rivers - DUAL PATH - 3 / 12 - Another sacred heavy infantry type. Unlike servants, these guys know how to fight and have berserk 4. They're also amphibious. After brief conversation with QM, the cost is probably fine, due to high prot + berserk 4.

Ambush of Tigers - 7 / 10 - Another animal summon, same level as the rest. Tigers have two attacks which makes them more powerful offensively than most. I suggest 6 / 4, keep at same research level.


Celestial Hounds - DUAL PATH - 2 / 5 - Oh I do love these little fellas. If people aren't using them then a slight discount to 2 / 4 or 2 / 3 wouldn't go amiss.


Heavenly Fires - DUAL PATH - 3 / 10 - Another fun flying sacred celestial summon. These guys throw fire around, but it doesn't seem hugely effective. I suggest changing their "Flaming Wheel" #321 weapon to #nratt 2 #dmg 3 to make them better at range and maybe discounting to 3 / 7 or 8.


Call Celestial Soldiers - DUAL PATH - 5 / 15 - These guys are sacred and have some nasty power on them, though they are at a relatively high research level. They seem pretty damn solid to me, though at size 4 I'd like to see them sporting a hoof attack to go along with their glaive. They are giant horsemen after all. If cost was cut to 5 / 10 they would be a very attractive higher level summon, maybe that's too much though.


Contact Huli Jing - DUAL PATH - 1 / 30 - A nice summon which offers more magic, but it's hard to get above 2 in W, S or A. Guaranteed N3 though. I'd rather they were 1 / 25 or so to encourage their usage.

[Sombre]

Urk. I just noticed some old CB 1.1 values for the summons I talked about, so let me address them first.


Celestial Servant was actually reduced to 1 / 1 in CB 1.1. If given +1 att/def I think it's probably better at 3 / 5 than the 3 / 8 I suggested. But maybe I'm still overcosting them, hahah.

Heavenly Fires was already at 3 / 8 in cb, much as I suggested - with improved ranged attack this is fine imo.

Call Celestial Soldiers was actually at 5 / 8 in cb 1.1 which is even more of a discount than I was suggesting. If they get an extra hoof attack 3 / 10 would be fine though. 3 / 8 with the extra hoof might be real strong, which in itself is not a bad thing.

Ambush of Tigers, Pack of Wolves and Sloth of Bears were all discounted fairly heavily in CB 1.1, but not as much as I'm suggesting. I think early nature summons need more love, I really do. Especially these national animal ones.


Speaking of animal summons, let me address,...



MICTLAN EA


Summon Jaguar Toad - 1 / 1 - RL1, N1 - A Size 3 trampler that basically sucks. Currently att 7 def 6, prec 5. I suggest att 9 def 8, prec 9 (the spit is its natural hunting weapon after all). AP from 6 to 12 - Toads really aren't terribly slow creatures and that still isn't fast. I'd prefer it at 4 / 3 cost. Give toads some love!


Summon Jaguars - 17 / 25 - RL3, N2 - Jaguars are basically identical to Tigers and Great Lions, but are sacred. To avoid making the Great Lion spell completely pointless for Mictlan, I suggest 3 / 3, which is cheap but requires mage time. It still works nicely with a bless.


Summon Jade Serpent - 1 / 5 - RL4, W2 - Hey, this new summon is pretty cool. It's amphibious, has standard 10 and a really nice bite. I'd suggest 12 AP instead of 10, size 5 instead of 6 (compare it with hydra), def 11 instead of 9. The fact that it has 15 mr is a bit puzzling, most animals have 5. If you feel generous it could be 1 / 4.


Summon Monster Toad - 1 / 2 - RL5, N2 - I quite like the cost, but this guy needs to be better. Should have at least 12 AP, att 9, def 8 like his little brother. I believe this summon is also used by Ctis, who are at least giving toads and snakes some love (possibly literally, if their influence on Serpent Cult is anything to go by).


Contact Couatl - 1 / 40 - RL6, N1S1 - S3N3H2 flying mage, which is pretty solid. Obviously MA Mict isn't going to be summoning them up, though if they do they have no gold cost (#525). I'm going to go with my gut here and say that tempting EA and LA mict to actually use these guys instead of going hardcore blood would be quite good for variety and they /are/ snakes, so perhaps a discount to 1 / 30 or 35?


Summon Tlaloque - 1 / 60 - RL7, W4 - Powerful unique demons. I don't feel comfortable suggesting any price/stats change here. Guess if people use them, they don't need a change. If not, they do ;]




Bind Beast Bats - 3 / 8 - RL2, B1 - They were moved to 3 / 10 in cb, but I think 3 / 8 is fair. They are normally passed over for Ozelotls anyway.


Bind Jaguar Fiends - 3 / 13 - RL4, B1F1 - These were moved to 3 / 18 in cb 1.1. They're pretty nuts, so that seems fair.


Contact Civateteo - 1 / 25 - RL5, B2D2 - Mini-vampire ladies. They're B1D1H2 and are stealthy, but aren't assassins or spies or anything. Nice leaders though, of normal and undead. The problem of course is that recruitable Mictlan mages don't have B2D2, so a discount seems fair. 1 / 18 given that you might have to wait for an onaqui to summon them.


Bind Tzitzimitl - 1 / 10 - RL6, B2S2 - More sacred demon goodness, but these guys probably don't get much love because of the Ozelotl summon. I'd like to see them at 1 / 8 or 3 / 25 perhaps.


Contact Tlahuelpuchi - 1 / 25 - RL6, B2 - Sort of an upgraded Civateteo. They can assassinate and in animal shape are very stealthy (+25). Unlike the Civateteo they only require B2 so the cost seems,... ok. Are people using them?


Contact Onaqui - 1 / 101 - RL7, B4 - This seems very expensive, but then again it's very good. I'm going to leave this one to the experts :]


Rain of Jaguars - 14+ / 40 - RL8, B6F2 - No comment here. I don't want to touch the summon X+ spells.



As you can see my knowledge of Mictlan isn't awesome, especially when it comes to their blood stuff. I hope this is in some way helpful all the same :]

[Sombre]

ABYSIA EA


Summon Spectral Infantry - 5 / 5 - RL2, D1F1 - The Abysians lack recruitable mages to actually cast this and on top of it being difficult to use, the units aren't exactly hot stuff, only slightly better than shades. I suggest a major discount to 5 / 1 just to reward people who can cast the things.


Contact Scorpion Man - 1 / 12 - RL8, E1F1 - Again, the Abysians don't have mages that can cast this, though it does come late in the game. Actually that's the big problem with it - it's an interesting and powerful unit, but it's research level 8 damnit. If at all possible I'd like to see this dropped a couple of research levels and made 1 / 10. It seems really out of place at RL8. I appreciate that other nations have this spell and can actually cast it, so I could be wrong :]



CAELUM EA

Summon Yazatas - 6 / 18 - RL5, 2S - You already changed this a LOT in the last cbm, altering the unit, lowering the cost and making the spell RL1. So I'll leave them to you,.. though it might be thematically a bit funny I still think that both this summon and Amesha Spenta should require Air not astral, making them castable primarily by EA Caelum, since they are closest to the the celestial sphere. I suggest making them RL1 as you already have, but having them cost A3 - usable out of the box mainly by EA Caelum, but also by the other two eras.


Call Amesha Spenta - 1 / 60 - RL8, S5 - Reminds me of the Tlaloques. Again, I think they should be an air spell, A5 - one reason is to give air some actual cool summons, the other reason being that Caelum, particularly EA Caelum, don't get astral mages. Thematically EA Caelum would probably be most likely to summon these guys, you'd think. So I suggest A5 at 1 / 60.

[Sombre]

CTIS EA


Contact Sirrush - 1 / 10 - RL5, S1N1 - See my previous comments on Arcoscephale's Summon Sirrush spell. I think 1 / 7 or 8 would be far more tempting.


Summon Monster Toads - 3 / 8 - RL5, N2 - Note that this spell is different from the "Summon Monster Toad" one Mictlan gets, because it summons more at a time. Again, the boosts to the stats of the Monster Toad would help a bit, but I think this summon should be 3 / 6 making it hands down better for Ctis - after all the Marshmasters of MA Ctis would be far more in touch with these beasties.

Contact Couatl - 1 / 40 - RL7, N1S1 - See my comments on Mictlan's version of the spell, which is identical afaik.


Summon Scorpion Man - 1 / 12 - RL8, E1F1 - Once again the poor Scorpion man is hard or this nation to cast and high research level. See my comment's on Abysia's version, which has a different name but is afaik identical. Oh and as noted in IRC, he could be summoned a commander, that'd be fairly cool.


Devourer of Souls - 1 / 30 - RL9, D6 - A cool unique summon. Like scorpion man it could reasonably be changed to summon as a commander. It's nice that it is castable by Ctis with a couple of boosters. It could be dropped in research level by 1 or 2, but mainly it has problems as a SC killer because it isn't a commander and is a bit hard to use. With appropriate slots, as a commander and perhaps costed lower it could be a fun and useful unique for Ctis.



PANGAEA EA - all these summons are basically for Pan LA though.


Carrion Centaur - 1 / 10 - RL1, N1D1 - I merely suggest a discount to encourage the use of these reanimators. 1 / 6.


Carrion Lady - 1 / 16 - RL4, N1D1 - Suggest 1 / 10.


Carrion Lord - 1 / 25 - RL6, N3D2 - I'd like to see the Carrion Lord unit get N3D1H3 magic instead of his current N3H3 D 10% payload. That way he could summon up Carrion Ladies himself. Cost could drop to 1 / 20.

[MartialDoctor]

This mod looks great! I was wondering if version 1.2 was out yet? I'd like to try it out.

Thanks for the all the work you guys are putting into this.

[quantum_mechani]

It's not out yet, hopefully some time in the next few weeks.