Play The World

[Tris]

If deliberately misleading players as to your identity, and using their trust to gain information to use against them in a game you are actually playing in isn't cheating...

...you live in a different world to mine.

Here's some steroids, Good luck in Athens.

[Stormbinder]

I am glad that people see the Norfleet's behavior for what it worth.

Norfleet's excuses are laughable and he knows it of course. The issue is not that he had joined the game under alias and spoiled it, despite the fact that homerules were clearly created to prevent abusive norfleet's style of gameplay. It is not even than he had been deceived people on IRC channel throughout the game by listening to their plans against him without telling them so.

But the fact that he continuously and deliberately pumped his in-game neighbors for information about their plans and wars against his nation, while hiding ubder alias, is truly, as Tris said, sickable.


Than, when he was finally forced to "admit" that Pakhar is "Apprentice" of Norfleet, but claimed that Norfleet didn't give Pakhar any advice, he said on our Ice and Fire thread as a Pakhar:

quote:

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Originally posted by Stormbinder:
Why in the world would Norfleet ask such questions from caelum's neigbors while hiding the fact that he knows Caelum's player and he is in fact his favorite purpil, if Norfleet would be just observing Pakhar performance?!?

Originally posted by Pakhar Njal:

I find that this [Norflett's] behavior is perfectly normal from him. He tends to be a rather keen spectator on events like this.

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Keen observer, huh? Very keen indeed. And cheating and dishonorable as well.


P.S. to Cainhill: As for my rudeness to Norfleet, you know very well that I was always very polite to him on the IRC channel throughout our game. It's only on the Last day of "Ice and Fire" when he "admited" that he was deceiving us all along by telling that he didn't know Pakhar (he even asked us "Who is playing Caelum?" ), when in fact he was his "apprentice" and he "admited "that he was giving continious advice to Pakhar thorughout the game, while asking as about our plans about his nations, than I've snaped and said to him "STFU" when he kept interrupiting our discussion what to do in the game that he, as both Norfleet and Pakhar, have spoiled. Of course I was very pissed off at him at that point. Who wouldn't be?!?

What looks strange to me is that you have accursed me several times pub;ickly that it was my fault that I've admited "Norfleet's ringer" in our game. Now you are saying than you have know that Pkahar was Norfleet all along. I wished you would kept your facts straight instead of for some reason trying to protect Norfleet.

[ May 24, 2004, 20:39: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Tris:
If deliberately misleading players as to your identity, and using their trust to gain information to use against them in a game you are actually playing in isn't cheating...

...you live in a different world to mine.

Here's some steroids, Good luck in Athens.

He didn't cheat. If people were stupid enough to be giving him information, when they already had suspicions that it was him, that's as much their problem as his.

Frankly, if someone who supposedly isn't in a game I'm in starts asking questions about what I'm doing in the game, and what my plans are, I'm not going to be telling them.

All this is made more irritating by the nattering that was done on IRC about how they were setting up a fun game, no quitters, no players like Norfleet (given that they don't think playing against his strategy is much fun - I agree, but that's beside the point). I (and I believe archaeolept) was recruited with the belief that all players were personally recommended by someone - no unknowns, no ringers, no newbies.

But then they went and let in an unknown. Who, from what I understand, was just tickled to know that they didn't want him in the game, but hadn't bothered to tell him, and hadn't had the cojones to out and out say, "No Vampire Queens, no Norfleeting (my name for his tactic of a temple and castle on EVERY province), no Norfleet."

I was in that game, and was somewhat disappointed. By the game; by Norfleet, a little bit; but more, by some of the other people in the game and setting it up.

Again - he didn't cheat. If anything I'd say the concerted, out of game underhanded diplomacy to ally against one player / nation was closer to cheating, and was certainly unsporting.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
I am glad that people see the Norfleet's behavour for what it worth.

Norfleet's excuses are laughable and he knows it of course. The issue is not that he joined the game under alias and spoiled it, despite the fact that homerules were clearly created to prevent norfleet's style of gameplay.

The homerules were clearly created to prevent Norfleet's style of gameplay???

Now I am going to "accurse" you of an intentional attempt to misrepresent the facts. Anyone who wants to can look on the GoneGold forum and check the homerules for the game.

Let me reread it.... Ah yes. #4, "Special Home Rule" - maximum of 10 clams to avoid clam hoarding. That's it. Hmmm. "Also, no Ermor in this game". And #1, "No newbies".

Let me see - just which home rule was created to prevent Norfleet's style of play? Which? Do tell. Or, to quote yourself - STFU.

What looks strange to me is that you have accursed me several times pub;ickly that it was my fault that I've admited "Norfleet's ringer" in our game. Now you are saying than you have know that Pkahar was Norfleet all along. I wished you would kept your facts straight instead of for some reason trying to protect Norfleet.

No, I don't believe I said I knew it all along. It wasn't until sometime after turn 20 that I knew. You know - after the "blitz" that you took _25_ minutes to take the first turn in, starting at turn 10.

Protect Norfleet? I was irritated with him - even if the Secret Treehouse Club hasn't explicitly written on the door of the treehouse, "No Norfleet / No Gurlz Allowed", why would an adult go out of his way to sneak in in disguise just to pee on the pillows?

But tell me - when it's your pool party, and one of the guests you invited, pees in the pool, is it my job to clean it up? I don't think so.

And again - tell us which of those bloody home rules you _JUST_ said were designed to prevent Norfleeting, was meant to prevent Norfleeting? Nothing about VQs. Nothing about Norfleet. Nothing about castle-spamming.

Which was it, again?

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
He didn't cheat. If people were stupid enough to be giving him information, when they already had suspicions that it was him, that's as much their problem as his.

Of course he did cheat. Nobody was suspicious of him until late game. After that nobody was giving him any information or answering his questions. But by that time it was way too late, since he have crashed 2 out of 3 of his neigbors and they went AI.

I don't know why you are trying to distort the events and protect Norfleet Cainhill. Especially considering the fact that you were the only one who knew about Norfleet but didn't bother to tell us about than, instead accursing me of letting "Norfleet's ringer", as you put it, into our game. In any case please stop, I am not interested in arguing with you.


I encourage anyody who have any doubts about Norfleet's role in that game to fo to "Fire and Ice thread" and see for himself the true story, as well as all players reactions as the game was developing. Norfleet's (Pakhar's) words and actions speak for itself.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Tris:

quote:

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and honor, keeping my word, has always been more important to me than ethics.

Um...Keeping your word would be a form of ethics, wouldn't it?

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Nope. Ethics are generally a culturally agreed upon thing. Maybe an illustration :

If I swore I wouldn't reveal what someone was about to tell me, and they revealed that they were killing and eating children, honor would dictate that I kept their confidence, while ethics would insist that I told the authorities to save children.

Option 3, satisfying both my honor and my ethics : kill the SOB without telling anyone what he'd been doing.

Frankly, I didn't think that what Norfleet revealed to me warranted killing.

Besides which "honor" and the kind of behaviour that apparently went on in this sad episode are mutually exclusive.

Another person's possible lack of honor or scruples doesn't tarnish my honor. Only my actions or lack thereof can do so. I didn't give P/N any information; I didn't lie to anyone; I didn't whine and conspire and fling blatantly untrue accusations about.

On the other paw, I can see why some people wouldn't want to be in games involving Norfleet, or some of the other people involved in the game, to include myself.

[Stormbinder]

Cain, you seem to have strange agenda here, and I am not interested in continuing discussion. You said that you have noticed that somebody is "pissing in the pool" but choose not to tell anybody? Fine, that's your choice. You want to protect Norfleet? Fine.

As for homerules - they were clearly inperfect, as I admited myself, and you know it. But nevertheless, it was not me who said that Pakhar spoiled the game, violating it in spirit if not in letter. Go to the "Ice and Fire" game and re-read it if your memory is failing you. A lot of different people said the same thing before me, and I agree with them. One more time - stop distorting events please, this mess is ugly enough without your efforts. I will refrain from any future arguments with you.


As I said - everybody go to "Fire and Ice" game thread and see the truth for yourslef if you have any doubts. After you'll be finished reading it, you'll not have any doubts left on what was going on in that game.


The link is http://www.gonegold.com/ubb/ultimate...1;t=002168;p=3 (pages 3 and 4).

[Firebreath]

Could all people from that other game please go away and spam another forum

It does not matter that your arguments are self righteous, nor that you believe them to be true, nor, indeed, that others might believe them to be true - their place is not here.

Thankyou.

It seems that the best thing is now to restart. That those players who want to play join. But lets do this quickly, eh. No more beating about the bush, or waiting for laggards, or arguing about who's right when everyone's wrong except me

Oh, and finally. Just relax people. Believe or not as you will, but this is just a game

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
As for homerules - they were clearly inperfect, as I admited myself, and you know it. But nevertheless, it was not me who said that Pakhar spoiled the game, violating it in spirit if not in letter.

Not arguing that Pakhar / Norfleet helped spoil the game. That isn't the issue.

But I'm still waiting for you to explain the "home rules clearly designed to prevent Norfleet's style of play", which you just insisted today.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Firebreath:
Could all people from that other game please go away and spam another forum

Spam? Methinks you're confused about what spam is - perhaps you haven't been on the internet long enough.

But yeh - several of us who aren't even in the "Play the World" game have probably said more than enough, myself and Stormbinder first and foremost.