OT - your fav games

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Vicious Love:
The game was an atrocity.

Please, don't hold back on how you really feel about it.

As for the whole "decently done conVersion" thingie, I'm at a loss for words.

Given the length of your response, methinks not.

Pretty much the only element of P&P V:tM which made the transition intact

Guess you missed the interviews with the CRPG's designers on why things were done as they were. Or the interviews with the designers of the forthcoming Vampire Bloodlines, on what they thought of the earlier game, and what they're doing for the new one. I can see why you'd be disappointed, if you don't understand why they couldn't convert the WW rules more closely than they did. My advice is to avoid getting Bloodlines, because you'll likely be upset all over again.

I hope that came out coherent, I'm definitely not at my best at the moment. So. Very. Tired.

9) MY BRAIN IS SWELLING!

Coherent, yes. Ranting and frothing at the mouth too.

What you disliked about the game (except for the Ventrue goons, which really spoils the whole thing for those familiar with the WW pen&paper game) I could say about many other popular CRPGs. Bear in mind that it's a CRPG, and as such still has to appeal to the mass audience. The sort of roleplayers that love WW are a much smaller niche market than what the CRPG was targeting. So, yes, the game is over the top (another understatement) in many places, and has many many "theatrical" flaws. But I give it credit for allowing, like NWN has done, GMs to create their own (and better) modules and be able to play with people who aren't able to sit across a table from them. It also further popularized the pen&paper game, which doesn't hurt. And, despite its flaws, the game was fun to play. Perhaps not for you, but for myself and thousands of others it was.

[Vicious Love]

Point taken. Nonetheless, I expect a V:tM game to be more like Fallout than Diablo. I LIKE Diablo, because it doesn't pretend to be not-Diablo.
The whole point of V:tM is that it is the anti-AD&D. Dungeon crawls, healing potions, and legions of identical foes there only for the XP are anathema to White Wolf. Right from the outset, White Wolf games were there so elitist geeks could act like they're better than run-off-the-mill hack & slashers, all the while shamelessly indulging in one the oldest adolescent power fantasies in the book.
It's like that Will Smith opus, "I, Robot". It might turn out to be a downright awesome action movie. The effects might be truly spectacular. And Asimov's grave is still doing 300 or so RPM. If they'da called it "Sassy MegaDetroit Cop Versus the Killicator-Robot HyperNation", I'd probably watch it. Ditto for V:tM:R, but replace "Robot" with "Vampire" and "Sassy MegaDetroit Cop" with "Vampire".

Why am I not asleep yet? Stupid King of Dragon Pass demo. Download faster!

Update: Besides which, if Vampire fans are such a tiny niche demographic, why make a Vampire game at all?
I mean, Chessmaster 2000 mighta sold better if there were more explosions, but people looking for explosion-based entertainment generally get turned off by words like "Chess" and "master", as well as numbers above 7. Not that I actually play chess, or anything. Not nearly enough headshots.
Anyway, Bloodlines is going to kick. Silence your inappropriate-comparison making word hole. I'll be in my denial room.

[ July 19, 2004, 22:44: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

[Kel]

Though none of htem are likely to make my top 10, I thought Vampire was a decent CRPG, I thought NWN was a decent CRPG and I plan to see I, Robot

- Kel

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Vicious Love:
Asimov's grave is still doing 300 or so RPM.

Without a doubt. I've yet to see it, but I expect that "I, Robot" will bear about as much resemblence to something that Asimov would've approved of as Starship Troopers bore any resemblence to Heinlein's book of same name (besides having something called "bugs").

[Boron]

Originally posted by tinkthank:

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Originally posted by Arryn:

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Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Morrowind I didnt like nearly as well as Daggerfall. I was very dissapointed

Why? People keep saying they disliked the game, but they decline to say *what* it is about the game they didn't like (besides the graphics load on a computer, which is a non-issue with today's Boards).

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Sorry.
It seemed to me, like NWN, to be a world done without love. (This angered me even more in NWN, the makers of which having had really impressed me elsewhere.)
Despite being full of *things*, it seemed empty and hollow. (Think Heidegger's Zuhandenheit vs. Vorhandenheit here.)
This feeling was exacerbated in my eyes by an incredibly high degree of means-ends-functionality: almost nothing was there for its own sake, either as a pleasure or a joke or whatever. The NPCs seemed to me to be mere vessels to be robbed, killed, persuaded or from whom one could receive a quest (depending on your char type). The lack of feeling of immersion annoyed me so much that I had to stop somewhere in the middle of that big city whose name escapes me. Small things bothered me: I hated being greeted everywhere as "Outlander", even when disguised with that special helmet you got from one of those quests somewhere else.

I really liked the good system (nice classlessness, nicely open-ended); all in all, it was a good idea which was also implemented halfway decently, but one which completely lacked magic and feeling for me.

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yeah in neverwinter nights the story is only in parts nice . i liked the stories of your henchmen and parts of the main story but especially the first chapter in neverwinter nights i didn't like .
in the addition disks the story became better ihmo .
especially in the second one hordes from underdark the ingamevideos for important parts of the story were nice .
and the new special classes + epic chars until lvl 40 are nice .

i like the d&d rules system and it is well implemented in neverwinter nights .

but i didn't get as addicted with nwn as with e.g. diablo . bg 2 had the much nicer story too .

and another problem is that it is much too easy with certain characters .

i played a fighter / weaponmaster with 2 kukris .
i sharpened both by the smith in hordes from underdark and well it was really boring .
6 attacks / turn with critcal hit from 10-20 .
everything non critical immune got a critical hit almost every 2nd attack and so 100-150 damage . but even special critical immune monsters like the undead dragon died very quick .

so it is really too easy but balance seems to be very hard for roleplaygames in general .
in gothic 2 it was the same once you were familiar with the fighting system and knew what skills / attributes are important it was too easy too . i didn't need to use a single heal potion with any of the 6 dragons which disappointed me totally . they were integrated very atmospherically as great evils in the story but unfortunately they were easier to kill than 4 eliteorks

[Leif_-]

Originally posted by Mardagg:

-Legend of Faerghail

WHAT? Somebody else has actually heard about this game? Now I'm tempted to dig out UAE and exploit the clone items "feature" again.

[Arryn]

UPDATE: Having seen "I, Robot" this evening, I have to say that while Asimov would not have approved of the script (I can go into the reasons why if anyone really cares), the movie wasn't bad, and was a helluva lot closer to Asimov's "universe" than "Starship Troopers" was to Heinlein's. Go see the movie and enjoy it (ignoring the impossible physics of the bots will help).

[Vicious Love]

Haven't seen it yet myself but, shortly after my Last post, decided to Google "'will smith' asimov 'in his grave'". Results were... enlightening. I suggest you run the same search yourself, or simply run a search for "'i, robot' hardwired". Turns out any and all similarities between the movie and the book(s) are wholly unintentional.

Update: Summary of search results from various seemingly credible sources, for the abysmally lazy - Once upon a time there was an eye-gougingly generic, post Cold War, Michael Crichton style technophobia/hubris movie, about a detective who has to combat a robot uprising with raw power of quip. Realizing that nothing save the inflated effects budget set their movie apart from every mainstream SciFi Lite movie ever made, the responsible parties got in touch with the estate of Isaac Asimov, commandeered the title "I, Robot", changed one of the movie characters' name, tossed in some halfhearted mention of the Laws of Robotics, and waited for the profits to roll in.

Getting back on topic, I'm a big fan of Warhammer: Dark Omen and Shadow of the Horned Rat myself, and I don't even like the miniatures game.
As for Baldur's Gate, I prefer my computer games either have a good plot(Fallout style), or no plot at all(Diablo style). I can only have so many "assassins" clad in black for no reason whatsoever walk up to me in the middle of a busy street and exclaim "HELLO THERE I AM AN ASSASSIN AND I AM HERE TO MURDER YOU!" before I vow never to touch a game again. Honestly, even the AD&D system lets you slit someone's throat in their sleep, if the developer can't come up with a halfway decent excuse for a fight, they should just make the game a glorified random encounter generator. Y'know, like CounterStrike, only single player.

Updated update: Furthermore, if I have to sit through one more melodramatic, ultracliched ripoff of the end of "The Empire Strikes Back", I'll weep. Stupid Sarevok.

Addendum to update update: I really should get a new keyboard. I've been spontaneously dropping letters for like a week now.

[ July 21, 2004, 08:05: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Vicious Love:
As for Baldur's Gate, I prefer my computer games either have a good plot(Fallout style), or no plot at all(Diablo style). I can only have so many "assassins" clad in black for no reason whatsoever walk up to me in the middle of a busy street and exclaim "HELLO THERE I AM AN ASSASSIN AND I AM HERE TO MURDER YOU!" before I vow never to touch a game again.

That's what so great about KotOR: it has a real plot, great characters, and the only people trying to kill you are scripted to do so for logical (plot) reasons. No random (stupid) mayhem.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Vicious Love:
As for Baldur's Gate, I prefer my computer games either have a good plot(Fallout style), or no plot at all(Diablo style). I can only have so many "assassins" clad in black for no reason whatsoever walk up to me in the middle of a busy street and exclaim "HELLO THERE I AM AN ASSASSIN AND I AM HERE TO MURDER YOU!" before I vow never to touch a game again.

Those are ninjas, obviously. And as you well know, ninjas fight in public all the time!

That's what so great about KotOR: it has a real plot, great characters, and the only people trying to kill you are scripted to do so for logical (plot) reasons. No random (stupid) mayhem.

KOTOR had several planets with extremely hostile and violent wildlife that displayed incredible resilience to being shot. I'm also pretty sure they showed up more or less randomly for the sole purpose of mayhem, since I'm pretty thorough about clearing things out behind me, and when I came back out of a dead-end passage, there were more of them. But I feel a little bit of random mayhem every now and then is a healthy thing.