New & raw web based Dominion II game server - Page 8

Breschau · #71 February 22nd, 2004, 12:53 PM

Well, fwiw I started the NewbieTest game that's on there now. Mostly default settings.. if I understand it right it's set to host every day at midnight and to quickhost (that means it'll auto host if all turns are in before the set time, yes?). And no upload time - gotta start it manually?

As the comment says, I have no idea what I'm doing

Peter Ebbesen · #72 February 22nd, 2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

Anyway: interest in the server continues to be low. Anybody know why? Is such a server just not in demand; is it too buggy, does it miss a key feature...? At the current usage level, I cannot bring myself to use much time on it. I will let it run for a least a month, though, and see what happens. I will also watch this thread.

Ok, the following is not based on Dominions 2 as such, but on MP in general. I am pretty sure it is relevant for Dominions 2, though.

A key part of multiplayer games that you KNOW will run over weeks, or even months, of real time is that of having a coherent player group. It is not about random matchup with people who happen to want to join a game. The latter road will often leave you half-way through a game with people who just fail to show up because they are losing, have lost interest &etc. The player group is all about having people you can chat diplomacy with in-between sessions, that you get to know better, and that, because of the closer communication, can usually be relied on to stay dedicated. You take time to plan a game, you decide who plays which nation/faction, agree on winning conditions, optional rules (if any), and general hosting times.

Your site is IDEAL for small and quick MP games with a small number of participants, and such can be played in Dominions 2, but it is lacking in functionality that would facilitate larger games.

Coordination of the schedules and backstabbing of the players involved is probably one of the most important aspects of long-term MP in general, and that often requires a dedicated discussion thread, sub-forum, or ICQ/IRC group set up. The ability to send an ingame-message that will be read next turn is just not sufficient compared to the level of diplomacy needed when eight or ten parties are each trying to arrange a triple-cross for next session. (This happens more often than one should think - probably also in Dominions 2)

Now, it CAN be used if such a group has already formed, and have opened communication lines, in which case your server provides a clear convenience for everybody involved; They can log on at nearly the same time and start a game without risking somebody random joining and spoiling the game setup - so long as the participants can be fairly sure that nobody else by mistake takes their turn.

As such, I would expect interest in small games with casual players to increase as the server stability increases and knowledge of your server spreads, but I would not expect it to get a massive inroad of traffic with regards to larger games unless the player-player issues are addressed.

I could see a situation where a game was arranged e.g. in this forum with its dedicated discussion thread here, with the stipulation that it was played on your server.

PhilD · #73 February 22nd, 2004, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Breschau:
Well, fwiw I started the NewbieTest game that's on there now. Mostly default settings.. if I understand it right it's set to host every day at midnight and to quickhost (that means it'll auto host if all turns are in before the set time, yes?). And no upload time - gotta start it manually?

As the comment says, I have no idea what I'm doing

One of the difficulties with the server is that someone has to start the game, and anybody can do it. There could be a consensus that the one who created the game gets to start it...

I joined as Abysia, BTW.

Breschau · #74 February 22nd, 2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:
One of the difficulties with the server is that someone has to start the game, and anybody can do it. There could be a consensus that the one who created the game gets to start it...

Yeah, wasn't sure exactly how the whole game starting thing worked for mp. I'm not fussy who starts it or when, as I'm not sure how many players is good (or how long it'd take to "fill" the game).

PDF · #75 February 22nd, 2004, 04:36 PM

The IP server is a good thing, but I don't think there'd ever be many IP games going : the game is really best played in PBEM... And the players are more pbem types too !

What we still need is a PBEM server, kind'a PBW (the one for SE4). I'm pretty sure this will have more immediate success - this system has NO drawback on manual "hosting" , so every pbem game can migrate to it very soon !

PhilD · #76 February 22nd, 2004, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PDF:
The IP server is a good thing, but I don't think there'd ever be many IP games going : the game is really best played in PBEM... And the players are more pbem types too !

Not sure I agree with this... even for a "slow" game (PBEM speed), the TCP/IP play is simpler. And if you want a "quick" game (or even a 2-player game: not much diplomacy in there), there are no good reasons to play PBEM.

In fact, a 24/7 server like this one could be optimal, if the dom2 program itself were really made for it.

Quote:

What we still need is a PBEM server, kind'a PBW (the one for SE4). I'm pretty sure this will have more immediate success - this system has NO drawback on manual "hosting" , so every pbem game can migrate to it very soon !

I don't know how PBW or SE4 work, so I cannot comment on this.

Still, this server has a huge advantage, IMHO: it hosts on Linux, so I get fewer buggy battle replays than when Pocus does the hosting

Esben Mose Hansen · #77 February 22nd, 2004, 06:01 PM

I've started WarsOfGaia. I didn't realize so many had joined on that little map

This should be interesting...

I have read, and not forgotten, your comments regarding the pros and cons of the server.�I still see no obvious advantage of a PBM hosting service against a TCP/IP-server, except as I've listed above (or rather below in this backwards forum

) I will mull this over, and maybe do something about the things I can.

Now there's 3 more or less real games on the server. That's fine by me, and justification enough for me

It's not as though it is under any heavy load.

And yes, I think a gentleman agreement that the creator starts the game would be good, until such time that illwinter fixes the --uploadtime parameter. I will write this on the webpage at the next update.

Have fun!

Breschau · #78 February 22nd, 2004, 09:20 PM

Do the others that've joined the NewbieTest game want to start with what we have (5 people)? Or wait for more? All my games have been offline so far, so I'm not sure what a good number of players is for mp on aran.
edit: i guess someone started it already

[ February 22, 2004, 19:27: Message edited by: Breschau ]

Gandalf Parker · #79 February 22nd, 2004, 09:55 PM

the main advantage I see about PBEM is that a PBEM machine can start a game every day. For games that can run for months, a web server supporting tcpip games will probably be referred to as "a web server for Dominions2 but its full most of the time". Maybe the best method would be to offer both. Start the tcpip games as quickie games, and start the PBEM games as 1-a-day turns.

Johan K · #80 February 23rd, 2004, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

An interesting observation is that the CPU requirement a game is actually quite low; except for the startup phase. So I think my little server could actually host quite a number of games, provided that only a few are in the upstart mode.

I just fixed that, so now the cpu usage for a text server should not exceed 0% except during turn generation. The high cpu usage was caused by too much text output.

Now I'll just have to take a look at the strange countdown too and see if I can reproduce it.