Omaha Beach - Scen #9

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Beeg

Another example is Scenario #12 - Operation Jupiter. Played as AI vs AI, the game crashes for me around turn 35.

Same thing... green hexes on the left of the map. To me, it seems as though this happens in the large scenarios and I've only noticed it since the update before the last one (v.14 ?).

Large sceanrios or games *MAY* be the trigger but that is what we have a lot of.... we don't really have a lot of small map scenarios

If anyone sees this on a smaller map please post a save

This is what was changed for V14........


1/ For scenario design and editing there is one improvement and one addition

* When editing weapons data in the game editor for any of the four weapons a unit uses, the weapon number of the current weapon now appears when you click on the weapon button. Anyone who has tried to edit weapons data in a scenario in the past will know how much simpler this makes the whole process as in the past the only way to know what weapon # was used was to check the unit in MOBHack and it slowed or discouraged that kind of editing which was normally used to adjust the ammo count. The entire process is much simpler now.
* The Sound used by the weapon is now the final item shown. It would be rare to use it but it is now available and the existing sound # will show when you get to it. You will need to have knowledge of the existing sounds in the game however.


2/ Assault boats would sometimes show as burning wrecks. This has been corrected. They will be removed from the game map when destroyed as was SOP in the past.

3/ The unit name is now reported in the casualty message - this is handy to know which unit actually got hit in collateral damage situations

4/ Armoured cars that were capable of carrying passengers inside will now protect passengers in the same was an APC does. Previously the code considered them to be outside on the hull.

5/ There is now a 250 limit on changing the height and density of a Hex but they still cannot exceed the normal limits already in the game.

6/ Some changes to Engineering units

Engineering infantry now have a slightly reduced chance of inadvertently setting off a mine when entering a mined hex

* The text for mine clearance (second number) has been changed to "(X remaining)"
* Defending engineer infantry will now only clear mines, barbed wire and dragons teeth if they physically enter the hex containing them in order to allow defending engineers to sit just behind the defences without clearing their own defences. It has been a small annoyance for years that if you placed your own engineers just behind your defences they would start clearing them. They still can but when in the defence but now Engineers must enter a mined / Barbed wire/ dragons teeth hex to dismantle their own defences. In the defence they can no longer do that from one hex away.


7 / Aircraft occasionally would enter the map, make their attack run then do an instant 180 and leave the way they arrived. This has been corrected

8/ Passengers will now report "CARRIED BY: "..... normally this is obvious. They are in the vehicle carrying them but occasionally legacy scenarios would have ghost / doppelganger units and this allows those of us that fix these things the ability to know where they are supposed to be and when put into the transport that is already carrying their twins, cease being a ghost unit.

9/ Occasionally on very small maps the game would place V hexes on grey border hexes that neither side could take. This has been corrected

10/ Pressing K was reported in the Help file as a way to turn ID tags on and off quickly. This function did not work but now does. It's very useful for someone who may not like to play with ID tags on all the time but finds it useful for finding stray units. Now pressing K will turn on the ID tags when they are off and off when they are on when the game is being played. K does not work during deployment.

11/ The name of unit that has suffered casualties has been added to the message that appears on the bottom of the screen. It will now read...." Infantry Group - Suffers X casualties (Y)" with X being the number taken now and Y being the accumulated total.

12/ The mission types were being reported incorrectly in winSPWW2 Scenhack Sort / SQL. This has been corrected

13/ Some new flags have been added to customise scenarios Extended game version only
Entering 17 will give you the flag of WW2 era Iraq
Entering 25 will give you the flag of WW2 era Iran
Entering 97 will get you the flag of Denmark
Entering 98 will get you the flag of Estonia
Entering 99 will get you the flag of Lithuania

If you see something that you think might be the cause, let us know. Personally, I don't see anything

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Ts4EVER

Werent new map sizes added at one point? Namely those that ended on 5?

That change was made November 2016 which is well before when some are saying they started noticing issues

That would be V10 for WW2 and V11 for MBT

[DRG]

I just confirmed the problem existed before "the update before the last one (v.14)

I installed a copy of WW2 v10 and ran Scenario #12 - Operation Jupiter and after the ( IT NEVER ENDS ! ) opening bombardment I went "junk hunting" along the west edge and it was there..... a little more subtly than some others but I have learned how to find it easily on a green map

The next test will be to go back another couple of releases and do another check

[DRG]

Confirmed issue exists back to 2011 V4.5

So this is not "recent"

Right now I am looking at turn 2 of 400 Tarawa using a V4.EXE and the green junk is all there

EDIT......... found a copy of winSPWW2 V1........ ran Omaha beach and after the first turn



(sigh.......very badwords)

[zovs66]

So it appears that the "junk" goes back a ways and yet not everyone got a CTD in #9 or there would have been more reports. Also, ditto on #400 I would think. I got the CTD on turn 17 of 400, so others would have noticed this. I vaguely recall playing 400 several years ago and got much further along then 17, I was somewhere in turns 40s or 50s trying to kill of the darn Japs from the island. but that was many moons ago.

Just food for thought.

[DRG]

Andys thinking now is ( my simplified version ) we have an array number that is too low which is causing overflow and the reason it is more noticable now is we add more things every year and what may have only been a inconsequential event in 2006 is now 17 years later, not so iinconsequential

Think straw and a camels back and canary in a coal mine......some peoples systems may be older or more sensitive which is why it was noticed earlier by some people than others.

ALSO..... now lots more people are looking for it AND know what to look for so we get more reports

( think "dog pile")

AND...... it seems to have been noticed more often by people letting the AI play the AI in big scenarios and I have no idea how long they may have been doing that at one sitting.

So........ "the terrain junk" may only be a symptom of the problem not the cause

[DRG]

Until this is solved this is all we are concentrating on

Here are some questions.. if you have answer or can test and get an answer please do

• is it a large map - if so, from what size upwards
  
• is it a scenario with lots and lots of dugin defenders?
  
• is it a scenario with loads of mines and stuff, trenches (not the foxholes)
  
• is it loads of artillery fires??
  
• Plus - do we have a non-assault scenario that shows this with hopefully no air show or multi regiment stonk at the start?

EDIT............. further questions
Looking at the reported scenarios -

• -seem to be assaults with loads of defence stores - mines etc
• - seems mostly to be seen with seaborne maps( but those just show it more easily so I personally don't think it's the water that does it)
• - loads of troops, especially defenders
• - the defender is on the LHS?

We need to isolate the trigger(s) there are many questions

Finding an example of a small map with small unit counts that generate the junk is probably more helpful than examples with everything dialed to the max.

We KNOW big involved sceanrios have this problem but is it all big involved sceanrios ? is it big involved sceanrios with hundreds of houses ? Lots of arty ? lots of smoke ?

Or can it be seen in smaller maps and smaller games?

What is handy now is the 'U' key allows going to the west map edge and pressing it repeatedly acts like a flashing "beacon for junk" in non water maps




Anyone wanting to be investigative playtesters please do..... the more the merrier there are lots of questions that need answers

[DRG]

Ran a 3000 point meeter on a 100x100 map and after 4-5 turns did not find anything but this is not a definitive test

I ran an 8750 defender point battle on the same map size and found junk on the grey west map edge....... not a lot but there was some


Ran a 4000 point defender ( UK vs Jap 1942)

60x60 map

Lots of air and arty ( smoke ) and mines etc

Let it run 7 turns

No junk

Ran a 4000 point defender ( UK vs Jap 1942)

85x85 map that is the next size larger than a standard max SP2 map

Lots of air and arty ( smoke ) and mines etc

Let it run 6 turns

No junk


NONE of this is definitive proof of anything.......yet

[DRG]

95x95 map----- meeter-------5 turns ran....... no junk

95x95 map----- defend--5600 points------5 turns ran....... lots of arty etc--found junk

95x95 map----- defend--10000 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke etc, etc--found a bit more junk

90x90 map----- defend--14000 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke etc, etc--found a bit more junk and some was three hexes in

70x70 map----- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- lots of junk up to 4 hexes in from the west

45x70 map --- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- junk up to 4-5 hexes in from the west

That last one was interesting in that I could see junk being added with just about every arty stonk...... whether that was the arty or the smoke the arty generated has yet to be determined

BUT...... we have learned a few things......... It is NOT large maps that causes this and it is NOT just older sceanrios

Testing continues

[dTerm]

Originally Posted by DRG

95x95 map----- meeter-------5 turns ran....... no junk

95x95 map----- defend--5600 points------5 turns ran....... lots of arty etc--found junk

95x95 map----- defend--10000 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke etc, etc--found a bit more junk

90x90 map----- defend--14000 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke etc, etc--found a bit more junk and some was three hexes in

70x70 map----- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- lots of junk up to 4 hexes in from the west

45x70 map --- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- junk up to 4-5 hexes in from the west

That last one was interesting in that I could see junk being added with just about every arty stonk...... whether that was the arty or the smoke the arty generated has yet to be determined

BUT...... we have learned a few things......... It is NOT large maps that causes this and it is NOT just older sceanrios

Testing continues

Thx for the sum-up.

Did only a few tests today, with smaller maps than 50x50 and under 10000 points, but couldn't find junk terrain so far.

I was thinking, that maybe unit movement may contribute to the terrain screw-up. But as of now that's pure guesswork...