HINNOM EATS EVERYTHING

[Tifone]

Ok, and being them so pissed off makes them 10 times more fearful then a gigantic lion with a poisonous scorpion sting, bat wings and an old (pissed off himself) man's head?

And even being them so pissed off, they can be very silent indeed if they are so stealthy

Maybe (and I say, maybe) this nation is already very powerful to have those 6 very pissed off summons ^^

Nobody misunderstands me plz!! I like the flavour of the nation!! The flavour of the Lords of Civilization!! I am not a balance maniac!! 4 reelz!!
I'm just saying for me, it would be good if some of the (IMHO very thematic) advices given by the people of this forum are implemented to Hinnom - a lower morale, a smallest initial army, no access to astral so if you want those bad-*** guys and the horror spam etc, you absolutely need a pretender designed in this way (it was rather surprising to me that Baalz said the thing you want the most from your pretender are scales... what? a nation that doesn't need the pretender for magic diversity, help in initial expansion by a SC, blesses? )

Those are my opinions. I am ALWAYS opened to new points ^^

[MaxWilson]

Hmmm, that makes me think. Maybe Hinnom should have the option of taking one of the Grigori as its pretender? It would be especially nice if you could require it to be Imprisoned, but there's no way to do that outside of a very high point cost (which would still be circumvented with rubbish scales). 310 points and newpathcost 50 seems fair.

-Max

[JimMorrison]

Hehe Tifone, the thing about overall balance, is that it is very hard to manage a Hinnom economy in order to really exploit Blood income. Their Blood Hunters eat pop, and while it's not impossible to work it out, it is sufficiently difficult that I am sure it will take a lot of luck, and very good choices in MP to actually successfully summon Lords.

As to their fear, yes a Manticore is an enormous, hideous beast. It makes untrained men soil themselves. But it doesn't have laser beam eyes and lightning shooting from it's arse. >.> The Grigori are immensely powerful, and while mothers tell their children stories of Manticores to make them eat their vegetables, the prophecies of the return of the Grigori are so terrifying, that they are spoken of only in hushed tones. So while terrfying, the Manticore is just a mundane beast, and you have to assume something as powerful as the Grigori is more than that, like a 30 foot tall Darth Vader. You may forget to soil yourself, as you go mad and run away sobbing like a little girl.

[chrispedersen]

Scratches head.

I still haven't seen any population getting et. Maybe I should look harder....

[triqui]

Sombre said:
Well in fairness Lanka is also a powerhouse and any nation can be tricky to do well with if you are new to it/mp in general.

It is. I would rate Lanka access to magic, sacreds, troops and thugs almost as high as Hinnom.

But Lanka has the worst PD in game, and Hinnom has the best one. So if lanka is a powerhouse, then hinnom is.... a superpowerhouse?

[chrispedersen]

Well, judging from my experience in mp - I was able to take out vanheim in an early rush - but it cost so much that my position is poor for the rest of the game.

You could do a lot to *fix* Hinnom merely by nerfing their starting troops. As is, they can take reliably take 2 with an awak pretender.

But I would rather hinnom didn't get fixed for awhile.
Cool to see it in play.

[Kristoffer O]

Good thread with nice input.

I've been a bit worried about the nation since I made it. I've not played extensively with it, so this thread is much appreciated.

I did expect the nation to need some post release fixings, but I was a bit uncertain what their strongest points were.

PD and starting troops are probably good initial nerfs that doesn't affect the thematics of a nation.

Keep up the discussions. I would like to know a bit more of the pop-eating as well. How much does it hamper the nation.

And Baalz, an Ashdod guide would be nice too I fear they are more powerful, at least after the early game.

[calmon]

Hi KO, welcome back!

I don't think Ashdod is more powerful.

Like Baalz said hinnom has some super specials like posibility to cast all site searching spells other than water. And this is really important! Ashdod miss blood, nature and air in addition to water.

Blood Magic is a powerhouse and ashdod doesn't have access to it. Its even possible for hinnom to produce blood stones.

On the other side you got things like +15% Forge Bonus which isn't that good. With dwarven hammers (you normally have when producing items and ashdod has easy access to them) you got only a marginal bonus for the low cost items. 5 gems items cost 3 in both cases, 10 gem items cost you 6 instead of 7 so you save 1 gem. In higher costs the bonus is more worth but the main items you produce are at 5/10 gems (pendant, amulet of am, brands, most used armors and shield, etc.).

Well you don't have people killing giants but it doens't hurt hinnom much atm.

Btw, the possbile build of Ammi (and ashdod raphaite sage) without any lab is because of the bug that every mage with only random magic doesn't need a lab. Its also an advantage for this nations. Maybe you can fix it

[Zeldor]

calmon:

It is WAD not a bug with mages with only randoms buildable without lab. I was asking about it several months ago with MA TC mage.

[Kristoffer O]

I think it begun as an oversight, but it can be fun so we're probably not fixing it.