Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion

[geoschmo]

Problem with using emergency propulsion on bases IIRC is that emergency propulsion only will work up to your max standard movement. So if your standard movement is zero, the emergency propulsion won't move you.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Trajan:
using emergency propulsion to move bases. Hmm. Can you make it so that only a space yard can repair it? That way an engineering dept. cant be used to give a base unlimited movement. The player would have to use a spaceyard ship or base space yard to make it work every turn.
[snip]
is it possible to make a component that only repairs certain other components? That would allow for successive engineering components that eventually will repair any type of component. Maybe the first repairs only engines, then engins and weapons, then engines and shields...etc...

Neither of theses can be done currently. The first one wouldn't help anyway cause you can't use emergency propulsion on ships with no movement of their own.

Geoschmo

[ September 13, 2002, 19:56: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Mylon]

Okay, then how about adding in extra levels in engineering, such as

Level 1 Engineering bay component I (as is)
Level 2 Base Maintenance Reduction I (5% reduction, bases only)
Level 3 Engineering Bay component II (2 repair rate, for people that reduce their repair aptitude)
Level 4 Base Maintenance Reduction II (10% reduction)

If you want, maybe you can add in extra levels of engineering that produce cheaper Versions of life support/bridge or itself, or a third Engineering Bay that doubles as one life support in itself. Or an engineering bay that doubles as a power plant (generates x supplies per turn). Or dare I suggest 15-20% maintenance reduction? Technically a crystaline race with 20% maintenance reduction could have free starbases in vanilla SEIV, but that 20% sure costs a lot!

I'm not sure if it's in the devnull mod or not, but I would also suggest removing the quantum reactor. I actually liked the idea of supplies and catching a fleet out of fuel. But if you do remove them, power plants would be an interesting replacement.

I'm not too fond of the idea of moving bases, but if people want it I don't see too much harm in allowing them one point of movement per turn. If they would be limited by not being able to go through warp points then all the better. Oh dear, the huge fleet of 50 battlestations is on their way! We only have 5 years to build our defenses!

And does anyone have any comments on fighters? They seem to work well early in the game, but when they start getting smacked by combat sensored battleships, they seem fairly useless except as defense for the poor planets that don't have space yards or room to amass tons of weapon platforms.

[Mylon]

I just thought of another idea: separate Versions of ship and base engineering bays. The base Version offers maintenance reduction, the ship Version doesn't. I don't like the idea of maintenance reduction for ships because I generally tend towards playing defensively.

[ September 13, 2002, 20:49: Message edited by: Mylon ]

[Rollo]

Emergency propulsion does work for bases and the movement points can be raised above the maximum standard movement. But only, if their standard movement is already greater than zero. The same is true for ships, btw. Meaning that if you have a ship that has all engines destroyed, the emergency propulsion will not work. Bug, y/n? I tend to say yes.

Trajan, the emergency propulsion already can only be repaired by space yards (fac. or comp.) and not repair bays/engineering components. That is the (hardcoded) way it works.

So, in order for the rocket boosters to work, the base must have the ability to move in the first place. Hrmpf.

What do you (all of you) reckon would be a good requirement to make the base engines available? (if they get put in): right from the start? very high tech? something in between? or maybe an ancient ruins tech?

Mylon, I like the idea of adding solar supply generation to the engineering component, but have to be careful not to cause any conflicts with the solar collectors. Maintenance reduction of 5% seems a little low. I think I like the 10-20% better . Have to check that out, how it works with crystalline. Of course the components would be for bases (maintenance) and ships (repair) only. If bases get strategic movement, they will also be able to warp. No way to restrict that. Hehe, the image of 50 battlestations closing in with some turns to prepare the defense, is kinda cool, IMHO.

Comments on fighters? Yes, they are a lot more useful at first than in the stock game. If you don't have the anti-fighter-missile, you are pretty much toast. But of course battleships will still bLast quite a few of them away. Have you tried the maximum level (50kT) fighters, yet? With the heavy mounts and a couple of shields a small stack of them can be very dangerous even to capital ships.

Rollo

[jimbob]

What do you (all of you) reckon would be a good requirement to make the base engines available? (if they get put in): right from the start? very high tech? something in between? or maybe an ancient ruins tech?

It seems to me that the biggest problems to moving a whole base would be

1) total thrust must be rediculously high... so just needing a huge engine = higher kT. This requires a brute strength solution rather than a technical solution. So I'd say this should be available from the start.

2) rapid exceleration and manouverability would rip the base to shreds... so more than one mp per turn should require very advanced technology (inertial dampeners and the like).

That's what I think.

[geoschmo]

Rollo,

I have a request from someone that want's the 1.70 setup as a Version on PBW. Were you going to be putting out a new Version soon or should I go ahead and set that one up.

Geoschmo

[Mylon]

Well the power plant idea wasn't a solar panel idea. It would be something regardless of the number of suns in a sector. Like say a nuclear reactor on board that gave a constant +100 supplies per turn. You could theoretically remove bridge components entirely and give power plants the "bridge" flag so that they're required. Likewise, you could also have fusion reactors, singularity reactors, quantum reactors (not to be confused with the unlimited supply component!) to represent different levels of power generation. Solar generators would probably be a good addition as well, but I would think the solar panels would have to be modified in some way to prevent a proliferation of supplies and make sure that large ships with good reactors are still capable of running out. You could even experiment with removing resupply depots totally, but I think that would be a bit too drastic of a change to make without a _lot_ of extensive testing.

I also think the prospector hull is broken. It provides 80% maintenance reduction, and a crystalline race can easily turn that into a cash cow if >100% reduction = resource production.

[Mylon]

Nevermind! I have a Crystalline restructuring plant (+20%) plus a prospector hull (ship design says 80%, ability tab says 90%. Typo somewhere?) and a racial trait of +5% to maintenance reduction. I'm paying approximately 1.6% of it's cost in maintenance versus the 17.4% I'm paying for other ships in other sectors, so I think it's pretty safe to give relatively large bonuses of maintenance reduction to bases, but I still defend the idea that maintenance reduction component shouldn't be allowed for ships.

[Rollo]

Geoschmo, yes please do set up DNM 1.70 for PBW. I have gotten no bug reports so far and haven't found any myself. So it seems to be stable. There is no update planned for some time.

Mylon, there is no ability that will produce supplies regardless of the suns.
Maintenance reduction would not be available to ships, only for bases.
Not sure what you mean with the typo for the prospector hull. I checked it and found no error. The 80% is for the combat disadvantage, the 90% is for maintenance reduction.

Jimbob, thanks for your input.

One problem that I see with strategic movement for bases is the Propulsion Expert advantage. Maximum movement for bases would be one. Of course that means two for prop. exp. Big advantage? y/n. Especially when base movement is easy to come by. Maybe the ruins tech solution would be good? This way you can't really plan on getting and using it (plus I'd love to add more ruins stuff ). Or just can the idea altother? Hmm, more pondering needed... sorry for rambling.
I sure wish that the emergency propulsion worked for vehicles with zero movement. That looked like a very promising solution. Oh, well.

Rollo