Tartanians

[Twan]

DonCorazon said:
I actually find MP a blast, its just that the games take so long that as a noob, it takes you 3 months to realize that, while you may be one of the leaders in terms of provinces, gems, and research, you may actually have zero chance to win.

IMO it's never the case. If you are first in research you have lots of mages, so you can win even if you have missed the usual SC/artefact based strats. Mages and an higher research than your opponents are the best counters against anything.

You just have to equip well your mages to resist against the kind of mass destruction spells or artefacts your ennemies can use, and script them to cast anti-SC spells (slaying/enslave/paralysis spells if their MR is not too high, or unresistable fatigue or dammage against the unit type -a tartarian and all the undead chaff surrounding him may be killed by a dozen of mages casting wither bones ie -or even solar rays if he is the only target-)

The gems and army size stats are the most misleading ones as magical income (clams etc) don't appear, and army size count an overpowered SC just as one size 6 unit. But if you are first in research (and to a less extent provinces, income) you usually have good chances to win.

[Endoperez]

You need some kind of a save-or-die spell, though. Soul Slay, Petrify, Charm, something. That, or mages who can cast more AN damage spells than your opponent can stack resistances, and perhaps thugs in the event he does manage to get all resistances: Thunder Strike, Frozen Heart, Incinerate and a thug(s) with high-damage AP weapon would probably be enough.

[thejeff]

How do you survive long enough (and expand and get enough gems and gold to recruit mages to research) to get to Construction 8 without researching anything else?

No summons, your mages are almost useless on the battlefield. Some nations could get by just equipping their thug-like recruitables, though they couldn't self-buff. Most would have to rely on normal troops without mage support, and I suppose a pretender SC. Who can't be optimized as an SC since you need him to cover whatever paths you don't have natively for the Chalice and Tartarians.
And you've then got to go to Conjuration 9 to summon Tartarians.

Sure, if you do you'll be in good shape for the end game, but aren't they usually serious wars long before then? Or is this a turtle strategy? Whoever hides without fighting and gets away with it wins?

[Tuidjy]

Not all MP players go for Construction 8. I for example tend to ignore it for a
long time. There are only a few artifacts that are game altering, and it's not
worth sacrificing your early game for a chance of getting them. You can always
wish for them later. The Chalice, Mage Bane, The Death+3 Stick, The Forbidden
Light... even some of those, while awesome, have to be used in combat, and thus
tend to change hands. Mage Bane + Armour of Virtue is a Hell of a pain, though.

[Agema]

Sure Con8 can only reasonably be reached by people not heavily at war? Con gives you pretty weak battlefield capabilities, and getting a few nifty gizmos must be of little joy when your armies are disappearing in large magic blasts and provinces tumbling behind them.

[llamabeast]

Towards the end of one of my early MP games I got the disheartening feeling that everything I was doing was pointless, when people started saying things like "everything you have is useless against Tartarians anyway", "if you haven't been beelining for Construction 8 you've been wasting your time" etc. In my now considerably more experienced opinion, these things simply aren't the case. There are any number of approaches to the whole game and I try something different every time.

Of course, if you actually want to win a large game with a lot of players, you will need some cunning plan to be powerful in the early, mid and late games, and different things will be needed at each stage. (Though if you are playing a smallish game with 8 players or so, the true late game stage will never even be reached.)

Anyway, my advice is: Don't be disheartened. It is absolutely NOT the case that the game boils down to a few minmaxed strategies in competitive multiplayer. That is why this game is so awesome.

Incidentally I don't have a minmaxing mindset at all, and tend to do pretty well in multiplayer. I think quite a bit of that comes from success in diplomacy though.

[Sombre]

I think it comes from people giving you a free pass to territory and not attacking you for some reason. I followed a few games and it seems like you were obviously the big threat but people were continuing their private wars regardless. Digress might elaborate further : P

[DonCorazon]

LLamabeast, that is good to hear. I love the diplomatic / and quasi-RPG aspects of MP, even to the extent of sometimes taking an action that may not be in my nation's best interest (going to war on behalf of an ally I like for example). I prefer fun to winning but it is encouraging to hear though that there are multiple paths to victory because at least having a chance to win makes gameplay more exciting.

Otherwise, the so-called "strategy" in a game is actually just formulaic knowledge of what you need to do to win, like memorizing a recipe (research x, summon x, build x, kill !!!) -- not what strategy should be which is the ability to analyze a unique situation and try to come up with novel responses, which is what Dominions seems to offer with its abundance of content and options.

Anyway, sorry to get this thread off topic.

Now speak wise traveller of these dread entities known as the Tartanians and how we might use them to further our dreams of conquest....

[NTJedi]

Within one of my recent MP games which has ended, my opponent attacked several different provinces with fully decked Tartarians... even my blessed Lanka demons could not scratch them.

I know of counter strategies for bringing them down, yet their default stats are so impressive... and when combined with items they're so powerful.


I've listed some ideas for changes:

1) Improve tartarian counter spells such as maggots and blindness.

2) Lower magic resistance of tartarians... they've been killed a decayed brain shouldn't be as strong as a full healthy pretender.

3) Introduce a set of new spells which remove elemental resistances for a single target.

4) Use Kristoffers suggestion of a new type of insanity for tartarians.

5) Add new single handed weapons which damage undead.

[hnchrist3]

Is it I, or does going to level-9 in Conjuration make little sense for all but a few.

Literally, who would do that EXCEPT to conjure Tartarians? (Or some freaky s**t.)

As Ermor, I go for Construction 4 (Skull Mentor), then Conjuration-8 (Well of Misery), and then back to Construction-8 for unique items:
#1: The Chalice.
#2: The Sword of Injustice.
#3: The Ark.

If I acquire all three, you are going to see such wrath as you have never seen before.
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As stated by Agema, if under war, your chances of acquiring the knowledge are slim.
{Possibly Ermor aside, as he only needs to hold his home province to acquire vast research.}
[I personally (as Ermor) have been reduced to my home provence alone, and have expanded to win the game.]
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In the end, Tartarians are useless, UNLESS you have a cure: