OT - US Presidential Candiates Arrested!

[Katchoo]

Starhawk said:Sorry but that's my feelings on Kerry, I think he is a liar as are all politicians but what bugs me about him is his danged "I Wont 3 purple hearts" big deal so you got in the way 3 times and got a skinned knee (or it's wartime equivalent) tens of thousands of other US soldiers got the purple heart after they died (can't remember the spelling of the word so I won't even try right now) so he's nothing special and should stop rubbing those in our faces.

I'm sorry, but the complete and utter disrespect being shown to Veterens by Republicans (you included, Starhawk) is disgusting.

Regardless of the injury, how it happend, where it happened, or how often it happend, at least he had the balls to volunteer. What he saw in Vietnam horrified him (and many others), and because of that he spoke out. Until you've walked a mile in that man's shoes, you are in NO position to question, degrade, or insult his Service.

My Grandfather served over 2 Years overseas during World War II, and if I ever degraded someone's Service the way you and the Republican's are (ie: those stupid purple heart bandaids) I would fully expect him to have taken out his WWII pistol out of storage and shoot me dead.

Republicans... I've never seen a more disrespectful and disgusting group of people since a dumb *** KKK supporter tried to march in Ottawa.

[Gandalf Parker]

Starhawk said:Crap I misworded it again I'm sorry to Canadians everywhere lol I did not meant to imply their soldiers were incompetent ro their technology inferior I meant NUMBERS wise they are by far no true military power and can't fight a "serious war" on their own....as it would probobly bankrupt them....sorry again.

AHhhhh the old "US, Russia, China are the big armies" thing. And now that Russia is out of the picture....
Well yes, thats true. Although Im sure thy have enough population to put out a decent military force if ever they were attacked.

[AMF]

You're absolutely right, and I shoulnd't have said that - I know better, and I don't even really feel totally like that. I mean, I hate, *hate* vast generalizations like that. My wife and I argue a lot about it. She says, unequivocally, that women in muslim situations have it cr*ppy. I say, yeah, progbably, but, it ain't like you think...And I have known plenty of muslim women who are as strong willed and not-gonna-put-up-with-anything as anyone. This is all somewhat ironic becuase I have an abiding interest in Islam and Islamic countries. In my experience Muslims are, in general, the most polite, kind and generous people in the world - and Muslim countries are FAR different to what we in the west imagine them to be.

What I really should have said was this: in countries where the state religion is Islam, women have a varying degree of structural, insituational and cultural hurdles to overcome. In some cases, these can be extremely oppressive, in others, almost non-existent.

Oh, and, hey, you think NY or Boston drivers are agressive? Man, you haven't seen aggressive until you've seen how women in Tehran drive! Seriously.



EDIT: a whole bunch of silly spelling mistakes

Gandalf Parker said:

Careful there. Thats an awful lot of countries. Including ones in Europe, members of NATO, ones in Africa and in the Pacific nations. Im not sure that "most" would apply unless you mean the arabic desert nations. Then it would probably be a safe statement. (my overseas muslim experience was in Turkey)

[Krsqk]

Starhawk said:
Oh and my oppinion of Kerry is that he is a flipflopping jackass who wants to win on his "I won three purple hearts!" line.....so BFD my Great Uncle DIED in Nam after staying for two tours and getting hit twice....Kerry got pissant wounds (not even enough to send him home for God's sake or keep him in hospital for more then a few days) and went home after 4 months after writing his own report to make himself a hero......yeah I don't want that guy in office I'm sorry.

If one thing bothers me about this, it's the instant change in his story. Not during this campaign, but back when he returned from Vietnam. While he was there, he was filming war videos where he was the hero, so apparently he wasn't too upset about the war. In fact, that would seem to indicate he thought war was a good opportunity to display his heroism (whether in RL or just on the silver screen). However, once he got home, he all of a sudden was against the war; he had seen dozens of atrocities committed by our troops; and he even said he had committed some himself. That doesn't sound like a good way to build up his image as a war hero!

I guess my question is: What happened on the flight between Vietnam and the US to change his desire to appear to be a courageous war hero who saved the day several times?

Of course, one could also ask what happened in the past year to change his mind again, but that might be seen as a snide political attack. Maybe that whole anti-war thing was just a phase brought on by shellshock?

[Starhawk]

Problem is he is currently pro-anti-war if you listen to him he tap dances to much to tell whether he wants to stay in Iraq till it's over or whether he wants to lead the US into yet aother humiliating withdrawal ala Bosnia.

[TerranC]

Krsqk said:I guess my question is: What happened on the flight between Vietnam and the US to change his desire to appear to be a courageous war hero who saved the day several times?

Coming to a theatre near you: The Siamese Candidate featuring John Kerry as John Kerry...

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. I'll go away now.

[AMF]

Bosnia was humiliating? I'm not tracking.

Starhawk said:
Problem is he is currently pro-anti-war if you listen to him he tap dances to much to tell whether he wants to stay in Iraq till it's over or whether he wants to lead the US into yet aother humiliating withdrawal ala Bosnia.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im not really seeing any flipflop there. First off, alot of people were for being in the military and against vietnam. And I dont think withdrawing from Iraq now is a humiliating withdrawal. Its done. We are now fighting people we were not fighting when we went in. Thank you but dont stick around.

Of course thats a problem to discuss here. We gamers tend to have a different idea of what is involved in "winning the war" and to EVER leave the area before converting it into a part of ourselves isnt it. Lets just hope that Bush isnt a gamer.

[Starhawk]

Oh.....crap I think I got the wrong country again.....I give up for tonight I'm waaaay to tired sorry.

Somalia was what I meant.

[AMF]

Oh my god, he CHANGED HIS MIND!

No, but seriously, there is no contradiction between being proud of what you are doing at the time and not in favor of the larger policies. When I was in Iraq, I took photos. Can you read my mind as well as yuo can read Kerry's and tell me why? I didn't think so.

EDIT: let me add some words that I think better explain what I mean: There is a world of difference between doing one's duty and trying to right wrongs. When he (or anyone) volounteered to go to Vietnam, to fight and perhaps die for his country, that's a powerful oath you take. You have a duty. It's not just pride in one's work, it's a calling. But, frankly (speaking from personal experience), almost getting killed tends to focus one's mind really well on what is important in life and what is not. And, I would guess that when his duty was over, he felt that he could then move on to dealing with issues or what he heard. A soldier or a marine or a sailor, is not going to disobey, be derelict, or otherwise bring shame upon their oath or their service. But when that is done, then they can reflect on what it was they were asked to do. Again, it takes a courageous man to do such reflection and come to the conclusion that the way the war was waged was wrong. END EDIT

And, perhaps he had an epiphany of sorts. When you're in-country for months and you see just one side, and then you get out and you talk to others and they tell you that they committed atrocities, that certainly could change someone's mind. And, hopefully, it *would* - again, I have a lot more respect for someone who can change their mind, especially on something of vast importance, than for someone who is going to stubbornly cling to some erroneous beleif.

That's why I can't have respect for anyone who says, at *any* point in their life, "Mistakes? I can't recall any I've made..."

That is not the type of person I'd like to be having a beer with.

Krsqk said:
If one thing bothers me about this, it's the instant change in his story. Not during this campaign, but back when he returned from Vietnam. While he was there, he was filming war videos where he was the hero, so apparently he wasn't too upset about the war. In fact, that would seem to indicate he thought war was a good opportunity to display his heroism (whether in RL or just on the silver screen). However, once he got home, he all of a sudden was against the war; he had seen dozens of atrocities committed by our troops; and he even said he had committed some himself. That doesn't sound like a good way to build up his image as a war hero!

I guess my question is: What happened on the flight between Vietnam and the US to change his desire to appear to be a courageous war hero who saved the day several times?

Of course, one could also ask what happened in the past year to change his mind again, but that might be seen as a snide political attack. Maybe that whole anti-war thing was just a phase brought on by shellshock?