OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested

[President_Elect_Shang]

Gees Roanon, didn’t you and I just have this song and dance. Now you are on the floor with someone else? I feel jealous, point is there had to be around a half dozen ways to put your opinion of CNCRaymond’s comments in a manner that was not insulting. Don’t start jumping on me (happy face) I am only pointing this out because I thought we had reached an agreement. I am sure being as eloquent and insightful as you are, you could soften the blow so that it does not look like you want to start a fight. Anyway, I still feel that you are cheating on me. Didn't I argue enough for you Last time dear?

Just a joke,
don't stroke.

Let me also add CNC that you did come across wrong.

[ December 14, 2003, 22:41: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[Fyron]

Guys... stop. Seriously. Mud has been slung on both sides. Let it die. This thread is heading nowhere but to a lockdown.

[CNCRaymond]

Ah, I have become the focus of angry comments. I will not run and hide from what I have said. If you all enjoy what you are posting them by all means, keep posting. I know I will.

The truth is, I was not the one to personally insult someone, I was the one who was personally insulted. Twisting my words to suit your needs, does not justify your actions or comments. I have apologized for not being more precise in my comments, and if that is not good enough, then oh well, life goes on.

To many of you are far to inflamed by this topic and I agree that the best thing to do here is for you all to apologize for treating me with disrespect or to lock down this thread to prevent more of your unprofessional behavior and comments.

After all pointing out other points of view, whether or not I personally agree with them or not, is all that I have done. Attacking me for it just proves how valid those other points of view are. If that offends people, then perhaps they have a guilty conscience for not supporting the war effort. I do not know, and I really don't care if you defend your insulting behavior by piling on more insults. That is your right, even if it does violate the terms of use of this forum.

If Roanon was offended by my comments, he should have handled it more professionally than to resort to the childish insulting behavior that he chose to conduct himself in. Justifying his behavior by saying I insulted him is at best warped logic.

Now that Phoenix has pointed out the error of my ways, I have posted an apology. The matter is now considered resolved in my opinion. But again, if you all wish to continue with this debate, I will be more than happy to oblige you.

Will, you make an excellent point in your post. Thank you for pointing out the warped logic of the statement. However, even though it is warped, people will saddly still chose to believe it.

[ December 14, 2003, 23:04: Message edited by: CNCRaymond ]

[Will]

Well, I don't think my comments were angry... I'm just pointing out the flawed logic in your statements, generalizing opposition to one thing as opposition to all things. I'm pretty sure the disrespecting comment wasn't directed at what I said, but just to make sure: There was no disrespect in my post, whether you saw it or not

Overall guideline for forum-goers: If a generalization is posted that is insulting, try not to take it seriously; it will save all involved a headache

--edit: Fyron, aye, I did it seems... I was fairly sure that it wasn't directed at my comments, but I was just ensuring that everyone knew that

[ December 14, 2003, 23:10: Message edited by: Will ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by rextorres:
[QB] I think that's unfair. I've staked out a position and you merely disagree with it. When you disagree with my position it's discussion when I refute your position it's argumentative. [qb]

Actually... when you refute someones position in an overtly hostile manner, it is arumentative. If you drop the hostility, it will become discussion like most other people's responses.

Fyron even called me "partisan" because he disagrees with all my postitions but of course he not a partisan

It miust be nice knowing what everyone else thinks and believes. I have not actually posted anything that would support such a statement. What I have posted that I disagree with is your attitude and manner of "discussion".

And for the record, Bush did lie. It is called propaganda, part of waging war. Every war fought throughout history has been filled with propaganda. Propaganda is by its very nature at best a half-truth. You can not fault someone for employing propaganda. You can certainly fault them for their real reasons for going to war, but not just the fact that they lied. Lying is what being a leader is about.

[Fyron]

Will, you posted concurrently with CNC's Last edit.

[CNCRaymond]

Ah yes, Sorry about that Will, I made an edit to clarify my comments.

Will, you make an excellent point in your post. Thank you for pointing out the warped logic of the statement. However, even though it is warped, people will saddly still chose to believe it.

[ December 14, 2003, 23:12: Message edited by: CNCRaymond ]

[Roanon]

Originally posted by CNCRaymond:
the best thing to do here is for you all to apologize for treating me with disrespect

No comment.

If Roanon was offended by my comments, he should have handled it more professionally than to resort to the childish insulting behavior that he chose to conduct himself in. Justifying his behavior by saying I insulted him is at best warped logic.

Do I understand this correctly? Calling me childish is NOT an insult, because YOU are doing it?
If I was offended by your comments (yes I was) then I should have handled it more professionally than by saying you insulted me, which is at best warped logic?
I give up, I really cannot understand this logic, my fault probably.

[ December 14, 2003, 23:25: Message edited by: Roanon ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by rextorres:
BTW: Yes Geo meant Clinton, but Bush Senior invaded Somalia. I truly believe things would not have been much different if Bush had won that election.

I think you are wrong. I suppose we can't know for sure. But I believe that Clinton's lack of comitment to the troops in the field, and mishandling turned what could have been a succesful operation into an abject failure.

It's not uncommon for the President in charge when things go to hell to be blamed for the failure of the operation, rightly or wrongly. Nixon get's maligned for Vietnam, which was started by Johnson. Kennedy inherited the Bay of Pigs from Ike.

On the plus side I supported what Clinton was trying to do in Bosnia. I would have liked to see more effort, but at least they stuck it out till the end there, unlike Mogadishu.

Geoschmo

[ December 14, 2003, 23:43: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[President_Elect_Shang]

For my part I am not claiming one insulted the other first. I am saying that it takes two to escalate the matter. You did apologize and that is fair enough. As to your viewpoint I hope I did not (was not trying to) insinuate either point is correct or wrong. I want to stay neutral.

My input is based on seeing one to many arguments started over what should be discussion. Did I say arguments? I meant fights. Have I been in a fight, heck yes my house is glass and I have stones in my pockets. It occurred to me (with the help of Roanon) that I needed to put those stones down and patch the broken glass, metaphorically speaking of course.

Roanon and CNC can take a lesson from Imperator Fyron and I. Imperator Fyron knows me as well as SJ, Atrocities, or Geo does, heck he knew me before I changed persona to President-Elect Shang. As I recall we have had more than one tiff ourselves (correct me if I am wrong) but we always calmed down and I think you two could do the same if you tried.

Even to this day Imperator Fyron and I do not see eye-to-eye, however we have come to understand one another as well as this board allows, now I feel very confident in reading his opinions and taking criticism from him concerning my conduct. I don’t expect you two (CNC, Roanon) to be friends or even agree. I am just asking that you try to calm down and debate in a non-insulting way. You both could have changed a few words out and said the same thing and not been so darn insulting.

I said it before and I will say it again, I want to stay neutral in this debate. But make no mistake if Imperator Fyron goes higher to have this thread locked I will back him all the way, that too is part of the mutual respect we have developed.