CherryMod Thread

[Kristoffer O]

The high defense of some commanders are due to the +3 mounted bonus. The base defence of a knight of avalon is not 16, but 13 (+3 for the mount).

Our initial settings was something like this:

Noncombattant 6
Untrained unit 8
Trained Soldier 10
Veteran 11
Elite 12
Rare special troops 13

Values of 14 - 16 are reserved for exeptional commanders and heroes. There might be exceptions of course.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Zen:
Please take into consideration some of your resource costs Cherrypie

The one I'd note is the 17 Defense 16 gold, 4 resource, stealth monks. While I'm a fan of stealth units. Just look at how much it costs to make a decent army of them initially.

320 Gold, 80 Resources = 20 17 Defense Monks
640 Gold, 160 Resources = 40 17 Defense Monks

Normally it wouldn't matter, but they have low encumberance (3), full dual wielding with 3 attacks (remember each attack after the 1st on a unit lowers the defense of it by 1, so they don't need high att) and 17 defense that with the exception of a few nations and most certainly independants, would have a hard time to deal with.

With that kind of resources you could have an army of 20 turn 1, and 2 turns later probably 20 more. And with such low initial cost their upkeep is low for being a stealth unit.

Just something to consider on the stealth units.

Edit: Just noticed they were sacred too. So throw Quickness on them with a +4 Defense for a 9 Water blessing and they are very nearly Vans with a grillion attacks for 16 gold and 4 resources.

Edit: I just noticed that you said in your post that RS units don't rout? At all? Or are you just going to make them have a high morale so that represents the amount of conviction they have towards their god?

DO they just die if they retreat? Or am I reading more into that, (if so, that could be RS's total fall, not being able to rout would be a huge weakness vs fear units and terror. Ermor and C'tis would invariably make them run and hide under their fancy dresses )

Hmm... well, the monks are sacred, which limits production to maybe 5/turn... I could even make them capitol only. The sai gives +3 defense each. The blind monks will certainly be capitol-only. Normal, non-blind monks only have 5 protection, meaning they fall to archers just like flagellants... which also get 2 attacks and have low encumbrance... but are cheaper. Monks (except blind monk) are not very good against armored opponents, though, unless you give them Fire 9=)

As for not routing... I would love to make RS units that rout commit seppuku if they pass a morale throw=) But actually, I was just kidding.

I'll look into the monk costs - they may be too low.

Kristoffer:

Thanks for posting that chart! I'll use it as a guideline.

-Cherry

I'm thinking of potential exploitation and is in no way trying to say not to do them As you should know Cherrypie.

As for sacred, yes that can limit it. At maximum 10 a turn for 160 Gold, 40 Resources.

Hrm. I am still wondering I'd have to do tests to look at it. I tried a similiar type of 'abuse' of bless effects with Battle Vestals which failed based on their stats. But this has a powerful set of stats and you may be able to make it work.

We'll just have to see eh? I also like having multiple sacred units, though I don't know if it should be particularly common ones like monks.

Edit: Flags are not stealthy. That is where my thinking is. It is relatively easy for a human sized unit (no special archer orders, except for closest, rearmost) to avoid archers, especially if you know how, so I wouldn't use that as an excuse, plus the fact that a Staff of Storms or less likely Arrow Fend can almost totally counter missile fire.

[ January 09, 2004, 02:14: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Zen:
I'm thinking of potential exploitation and is in no way trying to say not to do them As you should know Cherrypie.

[clip]

Edit: Flags are not stealthy. That is where my thinking is. It is relatively easy for a human sized unit (no special archer orders, except for closest, rearmost) to avoid archers, especially if you know how, so I wouldn't use that as an excuse, plus the fact that a Staff of Storms or less likely Arrow Fend can almost totally counter missile fire.

Ok you're being pretty persuasive. Not with the arrow stuff - I've never seen a fight during a storm so I can't comment - but I had kind of put sacred on because it seemed appropriate, and forgot to adjust the price accordingly.

Hmm... well there are a couple of solutions... I could, for example, make the unarmed monks sacred and the armed monks non-sacred, and since the majority of the defense comes from dual-wielding weapon-catching sais (3 def each), those monks would not be bless-abusable. "Holy Monks" and "Combat Monks", as it were.

Alternately... since as it stands they ARE stealthy, ambidextrous, and sacred (half upkeep, let's not forget), I bumped the price from 16 to 22, added +2 resource cost (to reflect a lifetime of training), and bumped the (capitol-only) blind monk to 32.

I also changed (made worse) a few of the armor stats, weakened the peasant (to more accurately reflect their ability to use a farm tool as a weapon) and militia, and lowered the attack of the medium and heavy samurai to reflect their encumbrance. These were because... well... RS was kind of dominating the combat sim in the Last test. Also, I wanted to ensure the units were in accordance with KO's guidelines.

Here are the revised stats:

New Unit:
RS Peasant (Base creature: RS Peasant)

HP: 7 Str: 7
Prot: 0 Att: 6
Mrl: 6 Def: 5
Mrst: 9 Prec: 9
Enc: 7 AP: 6

Weapons: Kama
Items: Straw Hat

Gold: 3 Res: 1

********************************

New Unit:
RS Militia (Base creature: RS Militia)

HP: 8 Str: 9
Prot: 4 Att: 8
Mrl: 7 Def: 8
Mrst: 9 Prec: 9
Enc: 5 AP: 8

Weapons: Te Yari
Items: Hachi, Leather Cuirass

Gold: 6 Res: 4

********************************

New Unit:
RS Ronin Thug Nunchaku (Base creature: RS Ronin Thug)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 7 Att: 11
Mrl: 9 Def: 10
Mrst: 10 Prec: 10
Enc: 4 AP: 11

Ambidextrous 2

Weapons: Nunchaku, Nunchaku
Items: Hachi, Tatami Do

Gold: 6 Res: 1

********************************

New Unit:
RS Ronin Thug Wakizashi (Base creature: RS Ronin Thug)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 7 Att: 11
Mrl: 9 Def: 12
Mrst: 10 Prec: 10
Enc: 4 AP: 11

Ambidextrous 2

Weapons: Wakizashi, Tanto
Items: Hachi, Tatami Do

Gold: 6 Res: 1

********************************

New Unit:
RS Ronin (Base creature: RS Ronin)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 11 Att: 11
Mrl: 14 Def: 13
Mrst: 10 Prec: 10
Enc: 5 AP: 10

Weapons: Katana
Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Haramaki Do

Gold: 8 Res: 4

********************************

New Unit:
RS Yari Ashigaru (Base creature: RS Ashigaru)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 7 Att: 10
Mrl: 9 Def: 9
Mrst: 10 Prec: 10
Enc: 4 AP: 11

Weapons: Su Yari
Items: Hachi, Tatami Do

Gold: 9 Res: 9

********************************

New Unit:
RS Samurai Archer (Base creature: RS Samurai Archer)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 8 Att: 10
Mrl: 10 Def: 12
Mrst: 10 Prec: 11
Enc: 4 AP: 11

Weapons: Wakizashi, Yumi
Items: Hachi, Mougami Do

Gold: 10 Res: 14

********************************

New Unit:
RS Yari Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 10 Att: 11
Mrl: 11 Def: 10
Mrst: 10 Prec: 10
Enc: 5 AP: 10

Weapons: Su Yari
Items: Hachi, Haramaki Do

Gold: 12 Res: 14

********************************

New Unit:
RS Light Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 10 Att: 11
Mrl: 11 Def: 13
Mrst: 10 Prec: 10
Enc: 5 AP: 10

Weapons: Katana
Items: Wakizashi, Hachi, Haramaki Do

Gold: 12 Res: 21

********************************

New Unit:
RS Nodachi Samurai (Base creature: RS Light Samurai)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 11 Att: 11
Mrl: 11 Def: 11
Mrst: 10 Prec: 10
Enc: 5 AP: 10

Weapons: Nodachi
Items: Kabuto, Haramaki Do

Gold: 12 Res: 24

********************************

New Unit:
RS Samurai (Base creature: RS Samurai)

HP: 11 Str: 10
Prot: 14 Att: 10
Mrl: 11 Def: 12
Mrst: 10 Prec: 9
Enc: 6 AP: 9

Weapons: Katana
Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Nuinobe Do

Gold: 13 Res: 29

********************************

New Unit:
RS Naginata Samurai (Base creature: RS Samurai)

HP: 11 Str: 10
Prot: 14 Att: 10
Mrl: 11 Def: 9
Mrst: 10 Prec: 9
Enc: 6 AP: 9

Weapons: Naginata
Items: Kabuto, Nuinobe Do

Gold: 13 Res: 25

********************************

New Unit:
RS Heavy Samurai (Base creature: RS Heavy Samurai)

HP: 11 Str: 11
Prot: 17 Att: 10
Mrl: 12 Def: 11
Mrst: 10 Prec: 8
Enc: 7 AP: 8

Weapons: Katana
Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Yukino****a Do

Gold: 14 Res: 34

********************************

New Unit:
RS Heavy Naginata Samurai (Base creature: RS Heavy Samurai)

HP: 11 Str: 11
Prot: 17 Att: 10
Mrl: 12 Def: 8
Mrst: 10 Prec: 8
Enc: 7 AP: 8

Weapons: Naginata
Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do

Gold: 14 Res: 30

********************************

New Unit:
RS Elite Samurai (Base creature: RS Elite Samurai)

HP: 11 Str: 11
Prot: 14 Att: 11
Mrl: 13 Def: 12
Mrst: 11 Prec: 10
Enc: 6 AP: 10

Ambidextrous 3

Weapons: Katana, Wakizashi
Items: Kabuto, Nuinobe Do

Gold: 16 Res: 29

********************************

New Unit:
RS Samurai Cavalry (Base creature: RS Samurai Cavalry)

HP: 13 Str: 11
Prot: 17 Att: 11
Mrl: 12 Def: 14
Mrst: 11 Prec: 8
Enc: 5 AP: 20

Mounted

Weapons: Katana, Hoof
Items: Wakizashi, Kabuto, Yukino****a Do

Gold: 30 Res: 42

********************************

New Unit:
RS Horse Archer (Base creature: RS Horse Archer)

HP: 12 Str: 11
Prot: 10 Att: 11
Mrl: 11 Def: 13
Mrst: 10 Prec: 11
Enc: 4 AP: 24

Mounted

Weapons: Te Yari, Daikyu, Hoof
Items: Hachi, Haramaki Do

Gold: 25 Res: 14

********************************

New Unit:
RS Blind Monk (Base creature: RS Blind Monk)

HP: 9 Str: 10
Prot: 11 Att: 13
Mrl: 14 Def: 16
Mrst: 14 Prec: 4
Enc: 3 AP: 8

Sacred

Weapons: Iron Fist, Iron Fist, Kick
Items: Robe

Gold: 32 Res: 12

********************************

New Unit:
RS Monk (Base creature: RS Monk)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 5 Att: 11
Mrl: 14 Def: 13
Mrst: 13 Prec: 10
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2

Weapons: Knife Hand, Nerve Strike, Kick
Items: Robe

Gold: 22 Res: 3

********************************

New Unit:
RS Monk Bo (Base creature: RS Monk)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 5 Att: 11
Mrl: 14 Def: 15
Mrst: 13 Prec: 10
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2

Weapons: Bo, Kick
Items: Robe

Gold: 22 Res: 3

********************************

New Unit:
RS Monk Sai (Base creature: RS Monk)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 5 Att: 11
Mrl: 14 Def: 17
Mrst: 13 Prec: 10
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 2

Weapons: Sai, Sai, Kick
Items: Robe

Gold: 22 Res: 6

********************************

New Unit:
RS Ninja (Base creature: RS Ninja)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 3 Att: 11
Mrl: 12 Def: 16
Mrst: 10 Prec: 11
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Stealthy 20, Ambidextrous 2

Weapons: Ninja to, Sai, Shuriken
Items: Ninja Garb, Kote

Gold: 20 Res: 10

********************************

New Unit:
RS Monk Commander (Base creature: RS Monk Commander)

HP: 10 Str: 11
Prot: 5 Att: 11
Mrl: 14 Def: 15
Mrst: 13 Prec: 10
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Sacred, Stealthy 0, Ambidextrous 3

Magic: Holy 2
Weapons: Bo, Kick
Items: Robe

Gold: 50 Res: 1

********************************

New Unit:
RS Shinto Master (Base creature: RS Shinto Master)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 1 Att: 11
Mrl: 14 Def: 15
Mrst: 15 Prec: 10
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Sacred

Magic: Holy 3
Weapons: Bo, Kick
Items: Robe

Gold: 60 Res: 1

********************************

New Unit:
RS Samurai Commander (Base creature: RS Samurai Commander)

HP: 12 Str: 10
Prot: 17 Att: 12
Mrl: 13 Def: 11
Mrst: 11 Prec: 11
Enc: 7 AP: 9

Ambidextrous 3

Weapons: Katana, Wakizashi
Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do

Gold: 30 Res: 34

********************************

New Unit:
RS Mounted Commander (Base creature: RS Mounted Commander)

HP: 13 Str: 10
Prot: 10 Att: 12
Mrl: 13 Def: 16
Mrst: 11 Prec: 12
Enc: 4 AP: 26

Mounted

Weapons: Katana, Daikyu, Hoof
Items: Wakizashi, Hachi, Haramaki Do

Gold: 50 Res: 23

********************************

New Unit:
RS Daimyo (Base creature: RS Daimyo)

HP: 14 Str: 11
Prot: 17 Att: 12
Mrl: 16 Def: 16
Mrst: 11 Prec: 8
Enc: 5 AP: 22

Ambidextrous 3, Mounted

Weapons: Katana, Wakizashi, Hoof
Items: Kabuto, Yukino****a Do

Gold: 100 Res: 42

********************************

New Unit:
RS Sword Saint (Base creature: RS Sword Saint)

HP: 12 Str: 12
Prot: 1 Att: 15
Mrl: 15 Def: 15
Mrst: 13 Prec: 11
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Sacred

Magic: Holy 2
Weapons: Nodachi
Items: Robe

Gold: 60 Res: 11

********************************

New Unit:
RS Geisha (Base creature: RS Geisha)

HP: 9 Str: 9
Prot: 0 Att: 9
Mrl: 12 Def: 7
Mrst: 11 Prec: 10
Enc: 4 AP: 10

Seductress, Stealthy 40

Weapons: Tessen, Kansashi

Gold: 60 Res: 1

********************************

New Unit:
RS Shinobi (Base creature: RS Shinobi)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 3 Att: 11
Mrl: 10 Def: 13
Mrst: 10 Prec: 11
Enc: 3 AP: 13

Spy, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2

Weapons: Ninja to, Tanto, Blowgun
Items: Ninja Garb, Kote

Gold: 35 Res: 9

********************************

New Unit:
RS Ninja Assassin (Base creature: RS Ninja Assassin)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 3 Att: 12
Mrl: 12 Def: 13
Mrst: 11 Prec: 11
Enc: 3 AP: 13

Assassin, Stealthy 25, Ambidextrous 2

Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Shuriken
Items: Ninja Garb, Kote

Gold: 50 Res: 8

********************************

New Unit:
RS Ninja of the Sacred Flame (Base creature: RS Ninja of the Sacred Flame)

HP: 11 Str: 11
Prot: 3 Att: 14
Mrl: 14 Def: 14
Mrst: 14 Prec: 11
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Resistances:

Fire: 100 Cold: 0
Shock: 0 Poison: 0

Assassin, Sacred, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2

Magic: Fire 2
Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Enchanted Shuriken
Items: Ninja Garb, Kote

Gold: 130 Res: 8

********************************

New Unit:
RS Death Ninja (Base creature: RS Death Ninja)

HP: 10 Str: 10
Prot: 3 Att: 12
Mrl: 13 Def: 13
Mrst: 12 Prec: 11
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Assassin, Stealthy 30, Ambidextrous 2, Fear -4

Magic: Death 1
Weapons: Ninja to, Poison Dagger, Shuriken
Items: Ninja Garb, Kote

Gold: 80 Res: 8

********************************

New Unit:
RS Ninja Master (Base creature: RS Ninja Master)

HP: 10 Str: 11
Prot: 3 Att: 13
Mrl: 14 Def: 14
Mrst: 13 Prec: 11
Enc: 3 AP: 12

Assassin, Stealthy 35, Ambidextrous 2

Magic: Fire 1, Random 1
Weapons: Ninja to, Ninja to, Shuriken
Items: Ninja Garb, Kote

Gold: 120 Res: 11

********************************

New Unit:
RS Wise Man (Base creature: RS Wise Man)

HP: 7 Str: 8
Prot: 0 Att: 8
Mrl: 10 Def: 6
Mrst: 16 Prec: 9
Enc: 5 AP: 8

Amphibian 2

Magic: Water 2, Nature 1, Random 2
Weapons: Fist

Gold: 220 Res: 1

********************************

New Unit:
RS Himura Battosai (Base creature: RS Himura Battosai)

HP: 11 Str: 12
Prot: 1 Att: 19
Mrl: 18 Def: 18
Mrst: 13 Prec: 10
Enc: 2 AP: 42

Hero, Assassin, Stealthy 20, Air Shield 50
Magic Quickness, Quickness 75

Weapons: Battosai no Katana
Items: Robe, Godlike Speed

********************************

[General Tacticus]

I must say the new costs seem rather better balanced... I have no problem with a race that get super units (giants do, after all, or Ulm) if the costs are balanced.

Regarding my concern about daimyo's stats, I didn't doubt that you arrived by them honstly, I ust feared they were too good for the price. I see you have adjusted the price up, which is good.
By the way, how well do they do against, say, Ulm's Black Lord ? He is still quite a bit more expensive, which is normal (lance, shield, better prot), So I hope he kicks their ***

I still have some concern regarding peasants. I am not saying their price doesn't reflect their value, because it does; but a 3 gold 1 ress unit could still lead to abuse, I fear. Even in an average castle, you could easily recruit 50 of them with that province's income. They'd make good units for a siege, perfect arrow fodder, they could easily soften the enemy quite a bit (by tiring his heavy infantry ). They would also make great AI deterrent (WOW, he's got HUGE armies, let's not attack). Perhaps they should leave after a fight like gladiators and your ronins ?

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by General Tacticus:
I must say the new costs seem rather better balanced... I have no problem with a race that get super units (giants do, after all, or Ulm) if the costs are balanced.

Yeah, balance is my top priority, because I can't stand playing with other people's unbalanced mods, no matter how interesting, realistic, or creative they may be. The biggest problem... I don't know how they'll do in a real combat situation, exposed to enemy archers!

Regarding my concern about daimyo's stats, I didn't doubt that you arrived by them honstly, I ust feared they were too good for the price. I see you have adjusted the price up, which is good.
By the way, how well do they do against, say, Ulm's Black Lord ? He is still quite a bit more expensive, which is normal (lance, shield, better prot), So I hope he kicks their ***

C:\Projects\Java\Dominions>java Fight rs.daimyo ulm.black.lord

'RS Daimyo' versus 'Ulm Black Lord' in 40000 bouts.

~ Attacker's Deathmatch Statistics ~

Score: --------------------- 122
Wins: ---------------------- 12.26%
Losses: -------------------- 87.75%
Ties: ---------------------- .00%
Timeouts: ------------------ .00%
Kills per fresh team: ------ .14
Kills per battle: ---------- .13
Kills per round: ----------- .03
Losses per battle: --------- .88
Life expectancy (rounds): -- 6.04
Life expectancy (battles): - 1.06
Avg. Rounds Elapsed: ------- 5.74
Avg. Rounds to Win: -------- 8.91
Avg. Rounds to Lose: ------- 5.30
Avg. Rounds to Tie: -------- .00

~ Attacker's Gauntlet Statistics ~

Score: --------------------- 354
Wins: ---------------------- 35.33%
Losses: -------------------- 64.41%
Ties: ---------------------- .00%
Timeouts: ------------------ .27%
Kills per fresh team: ------ .55
Kills per battle: ---------- .36
Kills per round: ----------- .08
Losses per battle: --------- .65
Life expectancy (rounds): -- 7.17
Life expectancy (battles): - 1.46
Avg. Rounds Elapsed: ------- 4.94
Avg. Rounds to Win: -------- 5.57
Avg. Rounds to Lose: ------- 4.57
Avg. Rounds to Tie: -------- .00

Well, you got your wish=)

Note: the "kills per X" statistics may be off slightly... I'll have to examine it.

I still have some concern regarding peasants. I am not saying their price doesn't reflect their value, because it does; but a 3 gold 1 ress unit could still lead to abuse, I fear. Even in an average castle, you could easily recruit 50 of them with that province's income. They'd make good units for a siege, perfect arrow fodder, they could easily soften the enemy quite a bit (by tiring his heavy infantry ). They would also make great AI deterrent (WOW, he's got HUGE armies, let's not attack). Perhaps they should leave after a fight like gladiators and your ronins ?

As for the AI... ugh. Though I think they use more than just numbers in determining strength... and supply is always a great limiter. Though the Wise Man does have a point of nature, giving rise to winebags...

Anyway, tiring expensive troops are what peasants are for=) As for the castle defense concerns... on one hand, a defender was a defender, once in a castle... but on the other hand, yes, it would be a huge advantage to quickly and cheaply recruit that defense. And more importantly, recruit them for beseiging, which DOES seem a little unrealistic. I had not considered either one. I was trying to balance them versus lobo guards, but lobo guards are mindless and thus worthless for castle defense.

To balance them for patrols (they'd be terrible) I gave them low movement, since patrol effectiveness is based on action points (or so I hear).

Well, I'll have to give peasants more thought, especially since the concerns you mention cannot be tested in the combat sim.

-Cherry

[ January 09, 2004, 08:23: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

The main reason I think that militia have their cost at what it is, is to discourage patrolling. This is just a observation of my own, but it works for me. Early patrolling can be semi-exploitive but I don't think making it easier would unbalance the game because of the effects of patroling and taxing on population. Or maybe so that patrolling units arn't as prevelant to allow some stealth tactics.

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Anyway, tiring expensive troops are what peasants are for=) As for the castle defense concerns... on one hand, a defender was a defender, once in a castle... but on the other hand, yes, it would be a huge advantage to quickly and cheaply recruit that defense. And more importantly, recruit them for beseiging, which DOES seem a little unrealistic. I had not considered either one. I was trying to balance them versus lobo guards, but lobo guards are mindless and thus worthless for castle defense.

To balance them for patrols (they'd be terrible) I gave them low movement, since patrol effectiveness is based on action points (or so I hear).

Well, I'll have to give peasants more thought, especially since the concerns you mention cannot be tested in the combat sim.

-Cherry

I myself was thinking of Hogsburg militias. They are more expensive, can be recruited only in Hogsburg provinces, and are more vulnerable to trample (size 1). I don't remember if they have better stats. The lobo guards on the other hand are sea only IIRC, and mindless (which is both good and bad).

The problem with peasant balance is that it is very difficult to test. Even if we could send, say, 90 peasants against 30 militias to balance them cost-wise, it would only balance them for AI use (which has no qualms against sending big armies of worthless troops). A player would use them differently... I myself am thinking of a screen of 25 peasants, in 5 squads of 5, forming a long front line the width of the battlefield, on attack closest. For the price of a good knight (the Ulm Version), I have protected my good troops against the first arrows volleys and any flanking movement, at least by the AI. Definitely woth it...

I did the same thing with great success with Pythium, only with gladiators (who were a bit more expensive but could kick some serious *** had great moral). I am doing the same with Mictlan in my AAR, with slaves (who are free but have to be captured, which takes time) and the cheapest warriors (9 gold 2 res). My concern is not the power of the peasants, it is their availability and cheapness...

Look at it this was : your race has cheap arrow fodder, medium priced average units, good heavy units, archers (though I don't know how good your bows are), good cavalry, the best stealth selection I have ever seen, good sacred units that are reasonbly priced (very rare !), decent mages including one with two random picks (very versatile), average priests, good commanders.

None of these fields are, in itself, unbalancing. I can't point at any one (except maybe the peasants, and I am not sure how well they'll do in real condition) and say : THIS is too much. But still I wonder...

Let me just give you one advice : far better to do a first release of the race that is too weak, than too strong. In the first case, people will be delighted when you make it better. In the second, it will be much hader to make them accept a tune-down.

[Saber Cherry]

Well, I wrote a little scale-rebalancing mod. Not that it makes them better, just more the way I feel they should feel.

Changes:

Major event frequency changed from 15% of events to 12%.

Order affects event frequency at 2% per scale, not 5%. I felt decoupling order and luck was very important.

Luck/Misfortune increases events by 7% per scale, not 5%. This is to make up for reducing the event frequency with a high turmoil.

Luck/Misfortune affect event polarity (good/bad) by 13% per scale, not 10%. Now the percentage of positive events is like this:

Luck : probability an event is good
3 : 89
2 : 76
1 : 63
0 : 50
-1 : 37
-2 : 24
-3 : 11

Growth/death changed from 0.2% population change per scale to 0.3%. Before there was no reason to ever choose Growth 3.

Capitol population by turn 30 (2.5 years):

Original, 3 growth: 35900
Rebalanced, 3 growth: 39200
Original, 3 death: 25000
Rebalanced, 3 death: 22900

...a minor change. I wish I could set a base of .1% growth at neutral scale.

Now, I just need a host=)

-Cherry

P.S. In the meantime, if you want it, pm me with an email address.

[ January 12, 2004, 21:31: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Johan K]

If it has a cute banner we'll be glad to put the Saber scale mod on our page. Right after the trolls mod.
http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/mods.html