Faerun - started

[Boron]

Oversway said:

Yeah! Considering how heavily modded this game is and the extreme settings, who knows how it will play out?

Your just saying that cause you are Atlantis .

[Manuk]

I will play out with lots of militiamen

[CUnknown]

One option is my crazy-psycho 9 province start idea from that game a while back. It can jump-start things, giving armies a head-start on gem-generators. Of course, the gem-generators will catch up, it's not much of a head start, but it's something.

Another idea along the same lines is to greatly lower indy strength, like to 4-5. Then people will be up in each other's faces faster, making investment in gem generators more risky.

Also, given the huge gem incomes everyone will have anyway (just from the 75% sites thing), gem generators are diluted somewhat and are of less value. i.e. It's better to take a province rather than build a clam under these settings. Of course, everyone will just be doing both, but hey.

[Soapyfrog]

I agree with Saber Cherry.

Boron, if you think about it, if you just get rid of soul contracts completely (and the game WILL be better for it!) you just need to worry about Vampire Lords generating armies of vampires. Giving vampires and VLs upkeep costs is actually somewhat thematic, and it will help control the problem of the mile-wide-mass 'o vamps on defence that will surley crop up as the game goes into the later stages.

I think they are (apart form Soul Contracts) really the only other super abusable free summons. No one is really worried about enormous armies of wolves, for example.

As for a 9 prov-start and "diluting" hoarding with 75% magic sites, this is just a slight delay of the problem.

However I will not twist anyone's arm on the subject.

[Huzurdaddi]

I don't really think that Vampires are super abusable. They generate a steady stream of revenue but it is very small ( ~ 2 blood slaves per turn ). This gives them a ROI of something like 30 turns which is in line with other gem producers.

CUnknown the reason why gem producers are good even with 75% sites is that this is an FFA. If there were only 2 sides going at it then generators would not be a huge deal. However generators allow the player who does not get into conflict to gain far more than those that go for conflict ( unless there is a very quick resolution, which really does not happen that quickly ).

I have no problem with gem producers in small tight games with 2 players or heck with 3. But as the number of players increases the desire to hoard increases rather dramatically.

We'll see what happens. I think that Boron's 1st crack at stopping Hoarding was decent. But I can live with Hoarding at full power ... I suppose. I also have not checked out Zen's latest spell mod but I bet he does not nerf battlefield spells anywhere nearly as much as they were nerfed in the last Faerun game. So that will be interesting. Warthful Skies are here again!

[dian]

Hi, guys. Can i play with Pythium? If possible, i'll do it.

[PashaDawg]

Welcome, Dian!

[Catquiet]

Huzurdaddi said:
I don't really think that Vampires are super abusable. They generate a steady stream of revenue but it is very small ( ~ 2 blood slaves per turn ). This gives them a ROI of something like 30 turns which is in line with other gem producers.

Vampire Lords can also summon one vampire(flying, immortal, ethereal, stealthy, life drain) each turn, that's the abusable part. So... no gem-generators, no soul contracts, and add upkeep to Vampires and Vampire Lords.

[Reverend Zombie]

Catquiet said:
Vampire Lords can also summon one vampire(flying, immortal, ethereal, stealthy, life drain) each turn, that's the abusable part. So... no gem-generators, no soul contracts, and add upkeep to Vampires and Vampire Lords.

So far I see two votes against additional nerfing (Oversway + me).

Others seem to be in favor of something, but there is no agreement so far that I can see on exactly what form the additional nerfs should take.

I think we have 17 players now.

Time to put it to a formal vote?

[Saber Cherry]

Most undead should never, ever need upkeep. However, Vampires - and possibly Liches / Demiliches - are different. Vampires like to live in the lap of luxury, and have all the normal human desires... moreso even than humans.

How do these numbers sound?


Scheme 1: Low costs, solely to prevent mega-abuse.

Vampire: 25g
Vampire Count: 75g (Cheap, as BF Ulm's specialty)
Vampire Lord: 180g


Scheme 2: Costs in rough accordance with unit power.

Vampire: 30g
Vampire Count: 100g (Cheap, as BF Ulm's specialty)
Vampire Lord: 280g


Scheme 3: High costs to reflect the exorbitant lifestyle and tastes of Vampires.

Vampire: 40g
Vampire Count: 140g (Cheap, as BF Ulm's specialty)
Vampire Lord: 380g