HINNOM EATS EVERYTHING

[Calahan]

It might be useful to list exactly what got changed in the 'nerfing patch' so that people can compare Hinnom before and after. I'll have a stab here now, but I may need some help with this as I never really looked at Hinnom pre-nerf, and don't currently have any pre-nerf patchs close at hand to check them out.

The Bold Text is taken from the patch history notes....

- Hinnom PD reduced
My quick test shows you currently get.
upto 20PD...
An Avvite Commander
1.5 Avvite Light Infantry for every 2 points of PD
1 Avvite Swordsman for every 2 points of PD

...above 20PD...
A Kohen
1 Avvite Heavy Archer for every 2 points of PD

What was it before the patch?

- Hinnom start army reduced
You currently get...
6 Avvite Light Infantry
6 Avvite Swordsman

What was it before the patch?

- Hinnom Popkillers give some unrest

- Avvite Chariot -> 5
This guide says they used to be size 6.

- Dawn Guard -> 45gp
This guide hints at them being 40gp before.

- Melqart Blood -> 3
??? Guessing it was 4?

- Ba'al Blood -> 2
?? Guessing it was 3?

- Ba'al eat Melqart event reversed.


Please feel free to comment on, or correct, anything I have listed above. And please forgive my blindness if any of the missing info is somewhere in the guide.

If we can nail down exactly what got changed, then we can work out exactly what change is supposed to have turned this super nation into merely an overpowered one.

[Executor]

Frozen heart is a great spell, although you probably couldn't script too much of it's due to short range, and I don't know if the AI would cast it on it's own.

I'm looking at my old game with Hinnom,
I think Hinnom had 8 - 8 starting army before the patch,
Baal had blood 3 and random 4.
Actually I think Melqart had an increase in blood by 1.

The funniest part was the fact that you could use unequiped Hinnom scouts to take out 1PD of many nations, still can.

[statttis]

Druids are great for casting frozen heart because they can safely be put up front. With 30hp and a E/N bless they're not easy to kill.

Hinnom still has probably the best starting army in the game. I took the starting army + first turn recruitment and expanded forever without losses.

[MaxWilson]

Yes, popeating causes unrest. I can't remember if it was always that way or was added as part of the Hinnom balance patch.

-Max

[Edi]

I think it always caused it. In any case, popeating and causing unrest are separate attributes of a unit. I.e. having the popeating ability itself does not cause unrest but the units that have it also have the other ability.

[happygeek]

Hello again, one more newbie question from me here -- those Melquart individuals. They are certainly bad right out of the box. I am just curious as to one thing: What do you do with their Blood Magic? I mean, you don't use those guys for blood hunting, sacrificing, or summoning, but for killing stuff on the battlefield. Right? So what's the magic for -- can you do anything with blood magic? And how do you keep a giant out on or behind the front lines supplied with virgins to do it if you do?

And one last question: Trampling. Is there any risk to it? Do you trample OR use your normal attack, or both?
Those Melquarts already have armor and a magical attack out of the box, I was wondering if giving them Boots of the Behemoth are a good idea or not. (As opposed to say boots of reinvigoration or strength or something else.)

Thank you

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by happygeek

Hello again, one more newbie question from me here -- those Melquart individuals. They are certainly bad right out of the box. I am just curious as to one thing: What do you do with their Blood Magic? I mean, you don't use those guys for blood hunting, sacrificing, or summoning, but for killing stuff on the battlefield. Right? So what's the magic for -- can you do anything with blood magic? And how do you keep a giant out on or behind the front lines supplied with virgins to do it if you do?

And one last question: Trampling. Is there any risk to it? Do you trample OR use your normal attack, or both?
Those Melquarts already have armor and a magical attack out of the box, I was wondering if giving them Boots of the Behemoth are a good idea or not. (As opposed to say boots of reinvigoration or strength or something else.)

Thank you

The usual method of keeping front line mages supplied with blood mages is scouts that are loaded with blood, travel with the army, and sneak so they are not involved in the combat.

As for Boots of the Behemoth....You probably could make it work.. but why? You already have size 5 trampling troops, that don't take up a commander slot.

As for trample / attack.... you attack something your size or greater. you trample those smaller.

[happygeek]

Thank you!

[/quote]

As for Boots of the Behemoth....You probably could make it work.. but why? [/quote]

Won't I get to kill more stuff per turn that way? Don't I get to trample a smaller enemy as long as I have MP left over? With a sword, I can only make one attack per turn, but with boots, don't I get to trample a bunch of little guys and then smash them with my sword? I mean: for very little investment (boots), won't I be gaining a large array of choices -- turning a very robust individual which would normally do well against a small number of large or robust troops but would be relatively ineffective vs. a large number of small, cheap troops into a unit which could do well vs. both?
In other words: To your question "why?", I ask: "Why not?" What is the drawback to trample, what do I lose?
thank you!

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by happygeek

Thank you!

As for Boots of the Behemoth....You probably could make it work.. but why? [/quote]

Won't I get to kill more stuff per turn that way? Don't I get to trample a smaller enemy as long as I have MP left over? With a sword, I can only make one attack per turn, but with boots, don't I get to trample a bunch of little guys and then smash them with my sword? I mean: for very little investment (boots), won't I be gaining a large array of choices -- turning a very robust individual which would normally do well against a small number of large or robust troops but would be relatively ineffective vs. a large number of small, cheap troops into a unit which could do well vs. both?
In other words: To your question "why?", I ask: "Why not?" What is the drawback to trample, what do I lose?
thank you![/quote]

Well, Executor's answer is pretty succinct, but I'll try to give a gentler version of it.

MP: you have to make pretty close to optimum choices. The level of competition is much stiffer than SP.

Yes, you can use BOB boots. Unfortunately to make it really work you then need at the minimum an amulet of resilience and probably an earth bless.

So thats 15 gems, and two commander actions and two slots on your melqart.

In the end, the games are usually decided by mages and SC's not armies. So the ability to kill lots of army men is less important than having a MR in the 28's, and a protection in the 25+s.

So the long answer is - yes you can. But then you'll have to take extra actions to equipment him for the late game.

So if you are taking non optimum actions while your opponents are not - you're at a disadvantage.

[Executor]

Yes you'll be able to kill more troops per battle turn with trample, but you'll build up fatigue too much too fast, hit over 100, fall unconscious and get yourself killed that way, and that's not very effective.