If Giants existed in BC times...

[thejeff]

If most giants dropped a size category, it would be nice boost.
Neifels are already size 5.
Dropping the other giants from 4 to 3 would let 2 of them fit in a square and drastically reduce their swarming issues. Obviously, dropping hp/str might compensate for this.
I don't think the size/hp/str is really the problem with giants. If anything, their troops are usually consider poor already. The cold aura combined with staying power from E9N9 bless is the only real strength of the Neifel Giants.

Both Jotunheim and Utgard also have excellent mages outside their capital. Skratti are excellent mages and thugs in any age. Vaetti hags are cheap and so useful. Seithkonar are also cost-effective and very nice. Cheap Nether Dart spammers, if nothing else.

[JimMorrison]

Pardon, Niefel Giants are indeed size 5 currently, I meant to say Niefel Jarls didn't necessarily need to be size 6.


And I think you downplay the effect a bit. Yes, it would make their line troops a bit better if they dropped to size 3, which of course would be nicely balanced by a slight reduction in stats. However, one of the cornerstones of the power of the giant nations, is the incredible benefits that they get from Nature blesses. Any reduction in base HP will be reflected by a commensurate reduction in regen rates, and that is a very big deal, even in the case of the aforementioned Skratti thugs. As an aside, I don't think too many people would argue if Niefel Jarl Chill auras were reduced a bit, each one is about 3x as potent as the aura from an Ice Devil (the Lords and Generals of Kokytos!), who could probably use a slight increase as well. Perhaps Ice Devils AND Niefel Jarls could both compromise at Chill (10).

[thejeff]

Just to continue to pick that nit, the Jarls are size 5 also.

I'd hate to see all the giants made less giant, for lack of a better term, just to reduce the bonus some of them get from regen. And while we may consider someone 7' a giant today, we also still consider them human. Giants of myth were always big.

I'd agree about the Chill aura. I'd forgotten it was that high. That would be the best nerf to Neifelhiem, weakening its early game without really changing its less impressive mid/late game or the much less feared later giant nations.

[Wrana]

The problem with chill aura is probably that it scales very good with cold Dominion. When Niefels attacked my Lanka in recent SP, for example, aura was closer to 3 iirc. So your own strong (hot) Dominion provides fair protection. At the same time, Ice Devils would probably have to operate in more temperate climate than Niefels. I am not sure whether their aura scales with temperature less than with Niefel. If so, it should be fixed, but probably main effect is due to Dominion difference...

[chrispedersen]

*If* giants existed in BC times?

Of course they did and do.. they just have absurdly high stealth values. Sheesh!

But where do you think sayings like.. he was a giant among men... come from???

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Wrana

The problem with chill aura is probably that it scales very good with cold Dominion. When Niefels attacked my Lanka in recent SP, for example, aura was closer to 3 iirc. So your own strong (hot) Dominion provides fair protection. At the same time, Ice Devils would probably have to operate in more temperate climate than Niefels. I am not sure whether their aura scales with temperature less than with Niefel. If so, it should be fixed, but probably main effect is due to Dominion difference...

Even the base chill on Niefel Jarls is something like 17. On regular Niefels it's 15 or so. Your Lanka territory must have been *extremely* hot.

-Max

[JimMorrison]

The Chill on the Niefel Giants is much smaller than that, I believe it's 6 base, so in 3 Heat should be down to 3. That's not so much a problem, as the Jarls, though still painful when you meet them en masse.

[MaxWilson]

According to the recruitment screen, Niefel Jarls are Chill (18) and Niefel Giants are Chill (15). Their chill is pretty ferocious.

-Max