Suhiir's Revised USMC OOB #13

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by shahadi

When loading out units for a scenario, primary weapons occupy the first weapons slot from the Mobhack Unit tab, and verification of weapon status maybe obtained in the Weapons Class from the Weapons tab. Right?

Correct, "Primary Weapons" are Weapon Class 1.

Originally Posted by shahadi

Now, to load out a unit from the D-key in the Editor, it would be wise to check the Mobhack for primary/secondary weapon status, correct?

It would be prudent.

[scorpio_rocks]

the problem is this now needs to be done for every other OOB to keep things even/fair when fighting USMC...

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

the problem is this now needs to be done for every other OOB to keep things even/fair when fighting USMC...

The USMC as a whole tends to emphasize marksmanship more then any national army (of course commando/special forces of any nation are NOT the same as their national army). And unlike most national armies everyone from infantry to cooks to radar technicians must re-qualify every year and failure to do so may well lead to a discharge.

So ... the USMC having a slight advantage over other OOB's doesn't seem unreasonable IMHO.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

So ... the USMC having a slight advantage over other OOB's doesn't seem unreasonable IMHO.

The ROK Marines have earned "warrior class" status. The Battle of of Tra Binh Dong in '67 attest to their having earned admiration from the USMC. Here is what Jones shared: "In establishing the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP), Gen James L. Jones frequently recounted his observations of Korean Marines during the Vietnam War. The fact that Republic of Korea (ROK) servicemen were skilled in the Korean martial art tae kwon do was widely known, evoking respect among allies and instilling fear in the enemy. The former Commandant recalled that his own Marines envied this skill, believing the Korean Marines were the most feared adversary on the battlefield and that North Vietnamese soldiers and Viet Cong irregulars would bypass Korean units whenever possible."(citation: LtCol James F. Durand Marine Corps Gazette
July 2005)

IMHO, and I do not differ with Suhiir, not substantially anyway, on markmanship, because truly, the warrior within does not depend on the weapon, but on his mind as echoed in the MCMAP credo: "One Mind, Any Weapon."

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

the problem is this now needs to be done for every other OOB to keep things even/fair when fighting USMC..

Let me say this, the goal as I understand of the oob's are not to make the game "even" or "fair," or ought not to be IMHOP; further, if we are striving to keep simulation in the game, then we must concede what happens in the real world, all armies are not equal either in equipment or personnel.

Lastly, I'd vote the ROKs right up there with the USMC, they stand shoulder to shoulder.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by shahadi

Let me say this, the goal as I understand of the oob's are not to make the game "even" or "fair," or ought not to be IMHOP; further, if we are striving to keep simulation in the game, then we must concede what happens in the real world, all armies are not equal either in equipment or personnel. .

Which is why there are variations in the morale and experience ratings of each nation in the game and that's as far as it's going to go

Don

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by DRG

Which is why there are variations in the morale and experience ratings of each nation in the game and that's as far as it's going to go

I don't know if Base experience and morale is randomized each time you load up a battle, but from a simple look, in January 1989, the USMC has +4 Experience and +3 Morale over the US Army, which is about right for the more intensely focused Marine training which has more emphasis on infantry combat arms, as opposed to the US Army's Big Green Machine Of Doom [TM].

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

The USMC as a whole tends to emphasize marksmanship more then any national army

Here's a US Army related report on the M16A2 circa 1982-83 from a contractor working with Fort Benning:

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a168577.pdf

[Suhiir]

I've worked with ROK Marines a few times and VERY thoroughly believe their unofficial motto "ROK Hard" is well deserved.
I'd say in attitude and training they're easily on par with the USMC, if not a step or two ahead.

While it would certainly be possible to go thru the OOBs and modify and any all such units (SAS, Green Berets, Spetsnaz, the list goes on...) to give them similar slight advantages I'll mention researching and rebuilding the USMC OOB was around 4-800 man-hours of work. Now multiply that by 91 OOB's (seeing as 1, the USMC is already tweaked) and the simple answer is ... it ain't gonna happen.

Now, if it bothers you enough to do ALL the research yourself and create a custom OOB, based on verifiable research NOT "best guess" go for it !

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Now, if it bothers you enough to do ALL the research yourself and create a custom OOB, based on verifiable research NOT "best guess" go for it !

Nah, that's not my point to get the oobs redone. However, if I choose to do a scen using SEAL, USMC, ROKS, for example, then yeah, I would tweak the units I needed too, while leaving the oob untouched. So, I might build a custom formation in Mobhack, then over in Scenhack change somethings, then in the game Editor use the D key to change the load outs, etc.

I mean, I try to let the player know when I've tweaked units (for game sim play experience based on solid research.) I don't open my mouth without references, else someone put a foot in it.

Abraham

[Suhiir]

That's what the editor is for!
I use it all the time when making scenarios.