Faerun - started

[PashaDawg]

Vote! Vote!

[Boron]

Welcome Dian.

So now lets definitely vote.

First just a simple vote for one of the 3 choices:

-No additional nerfs
-"Balanced" Hoard items
-extremely nerfed Hoard items

If the majority votes into one direction then we will do this direction, if it doesn't and we don't get a simple 50% majority for something then Aku the host decides.

So happy voting

[Huzurdaddi]

Catquiet said:

Vampire Lords can also summon one vampire(flying, immortal, ethereal, stealthy, life drain) each turn, that's the abusable part. So... no gem-generators, no soul contracts, and add upkeep to Vampires and Vampire Lords.

It's the summon allies which I was exactly addressing. The summoning of a vampire ally is ~= to 2 maybe 3 blood per turn. That makes it a 25-30 turn ROI which is more than fine. Using vampires lords to summon allies is a VERY sub-optimal way to use them and gives returns far below any other gem generator even post nerf.

It is *not* a strategy that I would use.

However I *would* normally summon VL's as they are excellent summons. Putting maintainace on them would pretty much crush that.

I'm for nerfing Soul Contracts as they are too efficient ( and I think Boron's Changes are fine, in my mod I put them at 160 blood but that was due to the game being played in 2.15 where stealthy units could not be killed by horrors in 2.16 this is fixed ). However I'm not for maintainace on vampire lords. They are one of the few mass producable leaders that blood has. Blood needs them badly. Zen's mod already nerfs them rather badly.

[Boron]

According Vampires we need no nerf at all imo:
Zens Spell mod raised the price for them to 77 Blood.
And with Zen's Spell mod there is no wish.

So even Abysia should have big troubles getting a higher blood income then 500 blood per turn until very lategame.

And in very lategame you can do anti-blood strats like plague etc. .

[Huzurdaddi]

I vote that your 1st attempt at balance was fine:

Current Beta of my balanced hoarding mod:

Clam:
3W needed to forge = 20w or 15w with hammer

Fever Fetish:
3F 1N needed to forge = 20f 5n or 15f 3n with hammer

Blood Stone:
4B 1E needed to forge = 40b 5e or 30b 3e with hammer

Soul Contract:
5B 3F needed to forge = 80b 20f or 60b 15f with hammer

I would personally punish clams a little more since they have no draw back ( unlike contracts and fetishes ) like by adding 1N to them. But to each his own.

[Aku]

I agree also. It will be rough to do in game but doable.

[Catquiet]

Huzurdaddi said:
It's the summon allies which I was exactly addressing. The summoning of a vampire ally is ~= to 2 maybe 3 blood per turn. That makes it a 25-30 turn ROI which is more than fine. Using vampires lords to summon allies is a VERY sub-optimal way to use them and gives returns far below any other gem generator even post nerf.

It is *not* a strategy that I would use.

However I *would* normally summon VL's as they are excellent summons. Putting maintainace on them would pretty much crush that.

However I'm not for maintainace on vampire lords. They are one of the few mass producable leaders that blood has. Blood needs them badly. Zen's mod already nerfs them rather badly.

Would you object to a 30 gold cost(2 upkeep) for Vampires, and 0 upkeep for Vampire Lords?

[Manuk]

OK nerf them a little, but let it be clear.

[CUnknown]

I'm not convinced we should nerf anything. If we nerf clams to 3w, only Atlantis has an easy time using them. Before we nerf anything, we should consider the very minor changes I've suggested:

1) 9-prov start (I wish you could go higher)
2) 4-5 strength indies

I wish you could make items cost more, but not require a higher magic level to produce. Then I'd be all in favor of having clams cost 20 gems, as long as they still only took a 2-w caster to make.

[Huzurdaddi]

Catquiet said:
Would you object to a 30 gold cost(2 upkeep) for Vampires, and 0 upkeep for Vampire Lords?

Yes quite strenuously.

Actually to be clear: I would object if they were the only summon handled in this fashion. If all summons were to have upkeep I would have no problem what so ever.