SP, MLRS and SPAA Developments

[Suhiir]

I recall a "truism" from days as an Intel Weenie:
"The Soviets can make one of anything but can't mass produce a thing."

[blatsas]

hi here i have some more info from greek version of bmp-zu23.
greek army made about 100 vehicle and the rest of bmp1 i thing sold in egypt
http://veteranos.gr/wp-content/uploa...2/DSC_5708.jpghttp://http://www.army.gr/default.ph...0043&cat_id=14

[MarkSheppard]

Chad now apparently operates a license built version of the Chinese PTL-02 Tank Destroyer (Chinese OBAT unit 744) as the WMA301 Assaulter.

http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspo...in-africa.html

Differences between it and the PTL-02 in service with the PLA(N) are the use of a 105mm Rifled Gun instead of the Chinese 100mm Type 86 Smoothbore gun.

The WMA301 is already in combat against Boko Haram in some areas of Chad.

[MarkSheppard]

From a brief look at SIPRI:

http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade...e_register.php

From 2010-2015 China supplied the following weapons to: (very abbreviated version, skipping a *lot* of countries or weapons already in the OBATS):

OBAT050 ALGERIA:
18 x WA-021/Type 88 155mm Towed Gun in 2010.

OBAT062 CHAD:
42 x WMA-301 Assaulter Mentioned Earlier in two batches in 2010 and 2013.

OBAT085 PERU:
27 x Type-90BM 122mm Self Propelled MRL, delivered 2015.

OBAT089 TANZANIA:
10 x PLL-05 120mm SP Mortars delivered 2014.

OBAT054 THAILAND:
18 x WS-1 302mm SP MRL delivered 2011-2013. Desigated "DTi-1" in thai service.
UNK x WS-2 400mm SP MRL delivered 2012. Designated "DTi-1G" in thai service.
4 x SR-4 122mm SP MRL delivered 2013. Designated "PR-50" in Thai Service

[MarkSheppard]

China in 2015 announced that they were to begin retiring their Type 89 / PTZ-89 Tank Destroyers (Unit 513 in chinese OBAT).

Link

The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) will retire its armada of Type 89 (aka PTZ89) tank destroyers, Asia One reports based on information published in the PLA Daily, the official newspaper of the PLA.

The PLA Daily published a picture of 18 self-propelled guns that look like Type 89 tank destroyers departing a military base of the PLA Shenyang Military Command’s 39th Group Army.

The newspaper said that an official retirement ceremony for the obsolete armored vehicles was held on November 3.

The Type 89 tank destroyer entered the PLA’s service in 1989. From 1989 to 1995 around 100 vehicles were produced. The tank destroyer’s main armament is a 120-mm/L50 smoothbore gun, equipped with a semi-automatic gun loader. Since the gun is not stabilized, the armored vehicle cannot fire accurately on the move.

“With its good mobility and a high automation level, the Type 89 tank destroyer can easily pierce the armor of enemy tanks using a 120-mm smoothbore gun,” according to Senior Colonel Wang Kai, a land armaments expert at the PLA Academy of Armored Forces Engineering in Beijing. However, the gun has a relatively short range, one of the Type 89’s many shortcomings.

With thin armor (less than 50 mm), the Type 89 only provides protection against small arms fire and artillery shell splinters and would not survive a direct artillery hit. In addition, maintenance costs for the weapon are relatively high. Furthermore, the tank destroyer, as the name suggests, can only be used against enemy armored vehicles and not for much else.

The Type 89 was “brought into service by the PLA around the early 1990s to close the loopholes in the PLA’s anti-tank capability that existed in the 1970s and 1980s,” according to Wang.

“Thanks to the past 20 years of modernization, our armored forces have acquired a large number of advanced tanks equipped with large-caliber, powerful guns, which means specialized tank destroyers such as the Type 89 will no longer be needed,” Wang added.

The PLA already concluded in the late 1970s that attack helicopters armed with anti-tank missiles would be the best weapon against large enemy tank formations, a conclusion that was reinforced with the U.S. military’s success during the Gulf War.

Wang acknowledges that “anti-tank missiles and helicopters represent the trend of anti-tank warfare. They can form a three-dimensional anti-tank firepower network.”

The PLA has been slowly building up its arsenal of HJ-10 anti-tank missiles, which, along with the WZ-10 and WZ-19 attack helicopters, are much more effective weapons against tanks in the 21st century. The HJ-10 anti-tank missile is purportedly the equivalent to the U.S.-made AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missile.

Photo attached of retirement ceremony.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well it appears Finland has a surprise for it's neighbor to the east. I suspect a show of force to demonstrate "we're confirming what maybe you knew and we just wanted to demonstrate to you that we know how to use it and aren't afraid to use it", of course that's conjecture on my part however, we don't fully know what the relationship will be with Russian here. I don't know that I had any information on Nextar's Bonus Mk II round before this however, Finland has had it since 2014. This is a fairly new round, if you will, a more potent, updated version of "STRIX" containing two warheads within the shell. What's note worthy from the Nextar ref. is the search area of the shell @ 32,000m2 per charge. It's GOING TO FIND SOMETHING AND TAKE IT OUT.
http://www.janes.com/article/65616/f...for-first-time
http://www.nexter-group.fr/nexter/Fl.../index.html#69

Haven't had a chance to verify if Bonus Mk II is in the French, Swedish or Finland's OOB yet.


The holiday season is upon us and there's nothing more peaceful than a beautiful winter scene in a clearing in the forest with fresh snow on the ground. Except maybe for what lurks on the other side of those trees about 30km's away. But it does just put you in the Holiday Spirit, well maybe not but it is a great shot.



Regards,
Pat

[dmnt]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I don't know that I had any information on Nextar's Bonus Mk II round before this however, Finland has had it since 2014.

It's been on my radar for a while, but as there is no official confirmation of being accepted for live firing practices, it's been withheld. Some other submunition ammo is there, but AFAIK the penetration values in OOB10 still apply.

[152H55]

The Finnish purchase of used South Korean 155mm K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzers seems to be getting closer, a memorandum of understanding is to be signed shortly and the formal contract in the beginning of the next year. From KBS, the national public broadcaster of South Korea: http://world.kbs.co.kr/english/news/....htm?No=123440

[dmnt]

Reports that FIN is purchasing 48 howitzers, but numbers don't add up. FIN gov has talked about approximately USD 100M purchase. However, tech transfer or maintenance etc. might not be included. (thread continues in Swedish, but machine translation works) https://twitter.com/a7_FIN_SWE/statu...59670779056128

[MarkSheppard]

New SWEDISH SPA.

http://www.baesystems.com/en/article...o-swedish-army

BAE Systems has received a 575 million SEK ($68 million) contract for the installation of vehicle mounted mortar systems on Swedish Army CV90 Infantry Fighting Vehicles.

The installation of the company’s mortar system, known as Mjölner, on 40 CV90s will considerably increase the indirect fire capability of the vehicles to support mechanized battalions.

“The delivery of the Mjölner solution to the Swedish Army allows it to field a capability well adapted for the CV90 while enhancing the fleet’s firepower,” said Tommy Gustafsson-Rask, managing director of BAE Systems Hägglunds.

Mjölner is the hammer of Thor in Norse mythology. The contract was issued by the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV), with first deliveries scheduled to take place in the first quarter of 2019.

CV90 is a family of Swedish tracked combat vehicles designed for FMV by BAE Systems Hägglunds and BAE Systems Bofors, which provides the vehicle’s turrets. More than 4.5 million engineering hours has contributed to the development of this advanced vehicle. The Swedish version is outfitted with a turret equipped with a 40 mm autocannon.

The Swedish Army has more than 500 CV90s. Earlier this year, BAE Systems was awarded a contract to refurbish 262 of the vehicles, including survivability, turret, and combat system performance upgrades. Adding the mounted mortar systems addresses another priority that helps increase the vehicles’ lifespan in support of Army capabilities.

Denmark, Estonia, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway, and Switzerland also operate CV90s.

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A Swedish member on another forum says:

After plowing through the sketchy explanations people have offered up online I'm confident that Mjölner is muzzle loading.

A human loader grab rounds and place them in the two rails depicted in the above prototype photo, a loading system then carries the rounds up towards the muzzle and then inserts them.

This is what allows for the higher rate of fire, the breech takes longer to open, load and close.

I can report that everyone who's had a chance to get a closer look at the system are very pleased.

Compared to AMOS the pros are a higher rate of fire, more storage for rounds and much cheaper cost which allows for more units given the available funds.

The cons are no firing on the move and no MRSI, at least initially. But the overall consensus is that it will be a better indirect fire platform.