Why no love for Caelum?

[Vynd]

I think the real reason that Caelum was Banned from some games is because Norfleet was primarily using Caelum after they took the VQ away from Ermor. Some people didn't want to play against him, and they were probably hoping this would keep him away.

[Stormbinder]

Vynd said:
I think the real reason that Caelum was Banned from some games is because Norfleet was primarily using Caelum after they took the VQ away from Ermor. Some people didn't want to play against him, and they were probably hoping this would keep him away.

Not in my current game (Throne of Heavens) You see, it Banned both Norfleet and Caelum nation, but for absolutely unrelated reasons. (it is played on Zen's modification of Cradle Of Dominion map)

I general I would not want to see Caelum nerfed, although it may very well be most powerful nation in MP atm. Still all races are not equal, it's a a life.

But I would certanly like to see some changes to False Horror spell, currently 10 fatique Air1 spell. The situation where just 4-6 false horrors from 1 100gp quickened seraph commander can rout 20+ PD of other nations just doesn't seem right to me, in combination with Caelum's ability to strike anywhere. IMHO changes to False Horror's fear aura or to spell cost would be very good. And Caelum would still be terrific raider even with reduced Fasle Horror's efficiency.

[Cheezeninja]

ALL i've seen so far is speculation and observations from an outside point of reference, many of the people arguing for the nerf have even admitted that they have played Caelum either infrequently or not at all. How can you be arguing for the nerfing of a nation, or even a spell, that you havn't even used in depth? All your seeing is the strengths without seeing the weakness's. Until someone can put forward hard evidence that Caelum is winning too many of its games i believe a nerf would not only be premature, but downright stupid.

note: I agreed with the VQ nerf, and i still do. Because if you looked at the games going on at the time a very large percentage of people were taking the VQ, even for nations that should not be thematically taking them. Once you get to the point when everyone is gravitating towards a single strategy because of its effectivness, then it might be time to impose a nerf to maintain balance and diversity. Frankly this is not the case with Caelum. In the starting game Posts i see, rarely if ever is Caelum the first nation selected, and i most definetly do not see everyone gravitating towards a false horror strategy during the playing of the game.

[PvK]

I too haven't heard anything that would make me afraid of Caelum per se. I will admit I have not had extensive experience with them, but I will also say that all of the experience I have had with them, has seen them getting pretty well steamrollered. Once I saw a Caelum AI lead in battle by a Manticore beat a Pangaea AI after a while, but that's not saying much. Incidentally, it then headed straight for my home Mictlan province with two armies, which looked scary at first, but my Mictlan had no problem dealing with them quite quickly. In MP I have seen Caelum troops fire ineffectively at a smaller force of armored troops and then rush in and die to (and fly from) them in close combat.

I can see how raiding fliers are useful and a threat, but not that threatening a one. In general I'm not afraid of Caelum, especially if I have good forces with lightning protection.

PvK