The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Thread!

[Twan]

Endoperez said:

Wouldn't it actually be able to cycle through all of its forms in a single turn? I just tried to do something similar, but couldn't, because you can shape change and give other orders afterwards.

Yes in fact the only way to have the desired effect is to use a cycle of firstshape commands, so the dragon evolves after each fight (but sending an egg to combat isn't very logical).

[JimMorrison]

Twan said:
Personnally my solution would be endgame non-SC summons casting powerful battle spells with the #onebatllespell command.

In the spell mod I'm (very slowly) developping, the endgame summons will be spirits with stats like that :

Spirit of Dreams (endgame air summon) hp and all stat (except MR) = 5, only 2 misc slots, but is a true ethearal and has a onebatllespell combining effects of Fog Warriors and a mass Confusion affecting 25% of the squares, also has two precision 100 long range attacks one with aoe 10 false fetters and one with aoe 10 confusion ; out of combat can call phantom beasts and domsummon/summon (a lot of) phantasmal warriors.

It sort of seems like giving such access to massive offensive spells would only erode the value of smaller units even more, making the only viable counter to have a few units with highest possible MR, and pray. It sounds like a cool unit, it just singlehandedly renders just about any conventional army into a complete waste of money, or even worse, a great way to buy the troops that kill your own mages off.

[MaxWilson]

Twan,

+1 to the #onebattlespell idea. A nice alternative to conventional SCs.

-Max

[sector24]

Twan said:

Yes in fact the only way to have the desired effect is to use a cycle of firstshape commands, so the dragon evolves after each fight (but sending an egg to combat isn't very logical).

Could you add a non-shapeshift action or spell that calls the next shape? So you have Move, patrol, defend, etc. and another action called "Transform". But you don't transform until you end the turn with that action selected. Or give him a ritual spell that kills the current unit and creates a new one in it's place. I don't know if those types of things are possible though, because my mod-fu is not strong.

[Endoperez]

First version of my monster mod attached. It has four seasonal spirits and one improved Mechanical Man commander. I've tested the units and they should work fine, and the spells appear, but I haven't tested if they summon the correct creature (or anything at all).

That's 4 level 9 non-unique SC summons and one strong non-unique level 9 thug. The mechanical giant has full slots, full immunities and enc 0, but 40 hp and mr 12. It might still be too good for its price (15 gems).

[Aezeal]

I'd say make relatively WEAK Fighter --> mages with a one battle spells.. and then not one that has all those major effects Twan had.. but multiple so you'd have to combine them and they could be killed w/o to much effort

[Wrana]

Transform command is, I think, impossible. Rituals, iirc, will work on any unit(s) which is not what is desired. Though there is a transformation possibility here. I would say that chain of #firstshape would be better, or even making unresearchable #onebattlespell - unless somebody actually knows how The Eater of the Dead works!
We also could add to any of these possibilities some uncontrollability - for example, giving large dragons some Tartarian-style madness & making their final shape a neutral. This will make Dragons a viable alternative, but not a must-have.
A #onebattlespell alternative is cool, too. I'm not sure about it exact effects on gameplay, though. Testing may prove whether or not it makes conventional armies even weaker than SC prevalence does. But in any case I think this is a productive direction to look in. Also, does somebody know whether it's possible to take SCs out temporarily without banishing them to Cocytos?

[Twan]

Wrana said: I'm not sure about it exact effects on gameplay, though. Testing may prove whether or not it makes conventional armies even weaker than SC prevalence does.

It's exactly the contrary, onebattlespell allow to use armies in attack, if used to cast spells like antimagic, protection buffs, resistances, etc... before round one.

The problem is more to avoid to make armies too powerful and end with a game where only number of troops matter as they are immune to anything.

So I'd mix the best buffs with effects that may be detrimental (affecting the two armies or even friends only).

[MaxWilson]

The other way to use an army in an attack is to attack twice (once during the magic phase and once during the conventional phase) so that the defender uses up all his gems during the magic phase.

-Max

[Wrana]

Another question - is there a possibility of direct or battlefield Dispel?