Ooh, ooh, new info on patch page!

[HoneyBadger]

I think Dai Onis are *meant* to be the best recruitable SCs in the game, but they fail on several counts.

In addition to the bad armour, they've got low research ability, and they're capital only-which is an issue for them, unlike Niefelheim, who can mass-produce regular Niefel Jotuns. A high bless with Yomi isn't worth considering, because you have no sacred recruits, and no really good sacred National summons. It's an expensive trial to SC them, and while you're doing that, other Nations are beating you in research and with their own sacred troops and SCs.

If Yomi had a sacred recruitable demon, then I think they'd be much more SC worthy, but since they don't, it becomes much less cost effective to give them the bless they need, and they can't forge well enough, early enough, to make up the lack.

[Trumanator]

I've never understood why the Kuro-Onis at least weren't sacred. What would be really great, though probably OPed, would be if the Aka-Onis, Ao-Onis, Onis, and Kuro-Onis were all sacred. Yomi is one nation that could benefit immensely from an Air or Astral bless. Air for the shield, and Astral for the MR to resist banishments.

[Aezeal]

autocast soulvortex would solve a lot of problem.. it would also give a new one: then the Dai-oni would be terribly overpowered

[Tifone]

Or maybe we're all failing at playing it correctly, like trying to play Pangaea as Ulm, and we should try some different ways.

[zzcat]

In Japanese folklore, onies are feared instead of worshiped, so making them sacred do not make sense. I prefer give them priest spells like unholy pretection to boost their mr. And giving Dai-Oni a Wraith sword(or"wraith katana")or +3 Reinvigoration may make them better in early game but not overpowered.

[Kristoffer O]

Regarding the R'lyeh pop-kill:

The dreamland was originally intended to kill population, in the sense that people fell asleep and quit working, succumbing to the dream-lure of the void.

I don't remember if there was a dreamland theme in dom2, but the early mechanic was similar to that of ermor. With a slight change of mechanics all pop-kill dominions got reduced by a factor of 10. Ermor was recently fixed, but apparently R'lyeh was forgotten. Thinking about the possible effect it would have we decided not to go the full length and went for a factor of 5 instead. Since this has not been tested since the release of dom3 (although we did play with it before the release and the change in mechanics) we are a bit uncertain about the effects, especially combined with the freespawns and their upkeep. Input on how the reinstated pop-kill works out will be appreciated.

Feel free to discuss possible effects now already, but we will probably not make any further changes until we have actual experience to back up opinions.

[Tifone]

What I think is maybe Dai-Onis and oni troops should in fact remain a good mid-game option, and be unefficent in early game. I don't expecially feel the need of another nation with early SCs or strong sacreds. IMHO Yomi lacks a decent early option anyway, except some raiding potential with the bandits, and the massable bakemonos...

HoneyBadger:

Don't all the acid spells not work underwater? How could it be an advantage for Aboleths?

[Zeldor]

Kristoffer O:

1. R'lyeh - popkill may be a good idea for them, but I'd also like to see improved mechanics of fighting between water and land, that is much easier invasion of water nation. If that happened R'lyeh should surely get better recruitment at land forts and something to do with their aquatic freespawn [now you have to starve them in low-pop province].

2. How about Demon Gate for Yomi? You know, smth like R'lyeh has, but with demons Maybe also Angelic Gate [like enochian rituals] for some other nations?

3. Any progress on Vanarus or EA/LA MAchaka? [or 3-pack of new nations as Christmas gift for us? ]

4. Maybe some new cool items and spells? Pocket Lab? Spell creating temples?

[Gregstrom]

For yomi, I think some small change like giving the demon troops another point of MR (to help against banish-spamming) would help. Perhaps regen on their ghost forms would help as well.

[Festin]

I suggest giving samurai armor less encumberance, which would help both Dai Oni and Jomon infantry. Jomon also could use some improving of their summons, like Seduction for Kitsune, but I am again repeating myself
Really can't wait to see the nice new features for these races that are coming with this patch