The Star Trek Mod - v1.9.7.5 (Oct 07)

[Atrocities]

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT:

The Star Trek Mod is a mod of SPACE EMPIRES IV therefore it must follow the physics of this game. The Star Trek Mod is not a STAND ALONE GAME. It is limited to the physics and restrictions of SE IV, thereby many elements of the mod that would be considered as Star Trek Cannon, cannot apply. IE true warp drive, ship sizes, weapons, and star trek acting AI. Albeit I have tried, with the help of many fine people, to simulate as well as we can, a true star trek environment for our game play pleasure.

[Atrocities]

Here is my new proposed Supply Useage / Generation Model for
the mod based upon an earlier post that outlined the problem
very well.


Code:

---

Level 	= 	Tech level

Move 	= 	Movement bonus

Uses 	= 	Amount of supplies used per move

NacT x2	=	Nacelle Total Times 2 (Because two warp nacelles are required.) 

NacT	=	Nacelle Total

CombT	=	Combined Total of Warp Core and Nacelle supply useage per move.

Speed	=	How many moves total

PerTurn =	Total Supply useage per turn mulitplied by speed and CombT.

Store	=	How much supplies each warp core stores.

Dist	=	Distance in squars

Max	=	Maximum components allowed

Gen	=	Supply Generation per turn

TPT	=	Total Per Turn

---

Current Model
Code:

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Warp Nacelle

Level	Move	Uses 	NacT X2



I	1st	40	80

II	2st	40	80

III	3st	40	80

IV	4st	40	80

V	5st	40	80

---

Code:

---

Warp Core 

Level	Move	Uses	NacT	CombT	Speed	PerTurn	Store

I	1b	20	80	100	2	200	700		

II	1b	20	80	100	3	300	800

III	2b	30	80	110	4	440	850

IV	2b	40	80	120	5	520	900

V	3b	50	80	130	6	780	1000

VI	3b	40	80	120	6	720	1050

VII	4b	30	80	110	8	880	1100

VIII	4b	30	80	110	8	880	1150

IX	5b	20	80	100	10	1000	1200

X	5b	20	80	100	10	1000	1300



I	6b	20	80	100	11	1100	1400

II	7b	20	80	100	12	1200	1450

III	8b	20	80	100	13	1300	1500

---

What I propose is to change the amount of supplies each WC can store:

Code:

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Warp Core 

Level	Move	Uses	NacT	CombT	Speed	PerTurn	Store	Dist** 

I	1b	20	80	100	2	200	600	6	

II	1b	20	80	100	3	300	900	9

III	2b	30	80	110	4	440	1320	12

IV	2b	40	80	120	5	520	1560	15

V	3b	50	80	130	6	780	2340	18

VI	3b	40	80	120	6	720	2160	18

VII	4b	30	80	110	8	880	2640	24

VIII	4b	30	80	110	8	880	3520	24

IX	5b	20	80	100	10	1000	4000	30

X	5b	20	80	100	10	1000	5000	30



I	6b	20	80	100	11	1100	5500	33

II	7b	20	80	100	12	1200	6000	36

III	8b	20	80	100	13	1300	6500	39

---

** (Estimated based on no supply generation)
The proposed changes to the supply use / generation system would be that each ship would have 3 full turns of supplies and the ability to generate about 3/5th of there needed supplies each turn giving a slight bonus to the lower warp cores to help the AI out. So if a ship keeps moving it will run its supplies down eventually, but pausing for a turn or two will rengerate supplies.

Bussard Collectors and Ram scoops currently contribute the following amount of supplies per turn.

Code:

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Bussard Collectors

Level	Max	Gen	TPT		

I	4	50	200

II	4	60	240

III	4	70	280



Ram Scoop I

Level	Max	Gen	TPT

I	2	140	280

II	2	160	320

III	2	180	360

---

Proposed changes to Bussard Collectors and Ram Scoops.
1. Change tech requirement to Warp Core - Supply Tech will be tied into Warp Core
2. Change the supply generation per turn.
3. Added a Level IV and X to Bussard Collectors
4. Increase Ram Scoop Max from 2 to 4
5. Or Consider Making Ram Scoop a seperate component that can combine with Bussard Collectors.
6. Or Consider Adding a MOUNT - Name it the Ram Scoop Mount - and remove the components Ram Scoop.

Code:

---

Bussard Collectors (For the Purpose of this model Ram Scoop Is figured In and Out)

Level	Max	Gen	TPT	Warp Tech Lev		

I	4	40	180	I - Beginning Tech

II	4	70	280	Warp Technology II		

III	4	90	360	Warp Technology III

IV	4	115	460	Warp Technology IV

V	4	160	640	Warp Technology V - VI



Proposed New Levels (Not using Ram Scoop)

VI	4	180	720	Warp Technology VII - VIII

VII	4	195	780	Warp Technology IX - X

VIII	4	250	1000	Adv Warp Technology I

IX	4	260	1040	Adv Warp Technology II

X	4	280	1120 	Adv Warp Technology III



Ram Scoop (Max increased to 4 - USING Ram Scoop and not Proposed new levels above)

Level	Max	Gen	TPT

I	4	195	780	Warp Technology IX - X	

II	4	230	1040	Adv Warp Technology II	

III	4	280	1220	Adv Warp Technology III

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The Ram Scoop Mount - Could simply just be used to give a 2x supply bonus for all levels and we would simply make the Max for all Bussard Collectors 2 instead of 4 because with the Mount they would be mulitplied 2x = 4 any ways.

Also we could reverse the names making the Ram Scoop the Bussard Collector. Sounds better to me.

What are your thoughts?

[Renegade 13]

Atrocities said:
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT:

The Star Trek Mod is a mod of SPACE EMPIRES IV therefore it must follow the physics of this game. The Star Trek Mod is not a STAND ALONE GAME. It is limited to the physics and restrictions of SE IV, thereby many elements of the mod that would be considered as Star Trek Cannon, cannot apply. IE true warp drive, ship sizes, weapons, and star trek acting AI. Albeit I have tried, with the help of many fine people, to simulate as well as we can, a true star trek environment for our game play pleasure.

Don't tell me people have been complaining that the mod isn't "canon" again?!? That's just sad.

As for the proposed change of names (making the Ram Scoop the Bussard Collector) sounds good to me.

[NullAshton]

Add fuel tanks!

[Gandalph]

AT, I think you're working too hard. As I stated in my previous post, changing the Ram Scoop to max 4 per ship worked perfectly and that's it. No other work required. With this, the player can make some ships with 4, some with 3, some with 2, etc. making a conscious design decision to travel far or fight well. Nuff Said?

[AngleWyrm]

The early tech limits are too low. With a range of only six, a vessel might not even be able to leave the home system without running out of gas.

If the player builds a colony ship on turn 1, it becomes available on turn three. That ship should be able to reach at least a neighboring sector and colonize without failing, a range of about twelve average. Building an explorer on turn one should result in a ship that can do some exploring.

With a storage capacity of three turns, a ship's fuel radius is one and a half turns from a resupply center.
It is the refill rate that determines what speed a ship can travel. The ships travel until out of gas, and then run at their maximum refill rate. This can also be done by stopping to refill, and then running at full speed, but it amounts to the same velocity.

[Atrocities]

AngleWyrm_2 said:
The early tech limits are too low. With a range of only six, a vessel might not even be able to leave the home system, let alone colonize or transport population.

The early game should still be playable, otherwise there is no reason to have the technology in the game.

The range is extend by the use of supply generation components. The loss is only 20 per move so they should have a good range.

To the other post above:
I have been working on this mod for nearly three years now and I have to tell you that it is completely differnt than it was when I started. Given by the amount of downloads this mod has had, and the emails I get, the mod is somewhat popular at the moment. I do get some negative emails, mostly people complaining that the mod is NOT star trek enough. Well no duh, its a mod of Space Empires and not a mod of a star trek game. Believe me when I say that I have grown very inpatient with those kind of emails. It seems that no matter how much I tell people, someone always seems to not get the message. So I have taken a few steps to ENLIGHTEN people about the fundamental basics that govern this, and indeed, any mod.

I get the occational "what in the hell were you thinking email" and again, I just have to say that I was not. Seriously, when I started modding I knew nothing, I still don't but I am learning. Thanks mainly to people like Rollo, Fyron, Aiken, SJ, Kwok, and many many many more the mod has endure and improved over the last couple of years. Even though I might get discussed with some of the email I get, for the most part, 99% of them are very positive and helpful. I guess that you just cannot please all of the people all of the time. But I try.

[Atrocities]

AngleWyrm_2 said:
If the player builds a colony ship on turn 1, it becomes available on turn three. That ship should be able to reach at least a neighboring sector and colonize without failing, a range of about twelve average. Building an explorer on turn one should result in a ship that can do some exploring.

I have not yet tested the new model but I am confident that it will work well. If not I will give the Colony Modules more supply storage to compensate. I want a colony ship to be able to move between 15 and 20 squares with no resupply generation. More with it.

[DarkHorse]

You could always add supply storage to the colony module itself.

By the way, Atrocities you do a great job on the mod, don't let a few nitpickers get you down.

EDIT oops, I should type faster, you beat me to the idea.

[Atrocities]

Thanks DH. I like nitpickers though; they help to make the mod more fun. It’s the folks that just don't understand the basics behind the limitations of modding space empires IV that drive me insane. Those folks just don't listen no matter how many times you tell them something.


The following are expepts from many emails over the last few weeks. (Not direct quotes - I deleted the messages to save disk space.)

"In star trek there are no warp points. Why are there warp points in your mod?"

The star trek mod is a MOD of space empires IV therefore it is limited by the physics of the game. Space empires IV has warp point so we have them in the mod.

"I fail to understand why you simply do not mod out the warp points."

I see that you do not understand what I mean. Space Empires is set up, by that I mean it is hard coded, to use warp points therefore any mod made for the game is stuck with warp points. I cannot mod around this.

"Well in star trek there are no warp points, they use warp engines and I will tell you that your warp engines work nothing like they should. (Enclosed is a warp core speed model and technical break down)"

Thank you for the information. Again I understand that Star Trek does not use warp points, however as I have stated before I am limited by the physics of the game. As for the warp drive system, again we are limited by the physics of the game and have tried to emulate as well as we can, a warp drive propulsion system. If you like, you can read the back-story for the mod. (Link)

"Well I just don't understand why you just don't do away with the warp points. They are not in star trek. As for your back-story I will have you know that Data died and O'Brian went back to earth to be a teacher. Therefore you story does not match the establish facts of Star Trek."

Thanks for the email again Tommy, as I have repeatedly tried to explain to you warp points are hard coded into the game and cannot be modded out or around. We are stuck with them because that is how Aaron Hall has set the game up. It is his game and therefore his rules. As for the back-story, you will note that I stated that Data was the duplicate version from Nemesis. As for O'Brian, the story takes place long after the events in DS9 final episode took place. Please read again I believe I may have explained this in the story.

"Your federation star ships do not look like federation star ships. I have never seen some of these Romulan ships you use and I would enjoy knowing where you got the specs for the Vulcan, Vaadwaur, Son's, Orion, Gorn, Kazon, Hirogen, and Andorian ships. I cannot find any of the ships you have in any Star Fleet records or documentations. Additionally I would like to point out that your warp drive system does not properly reflect how a warp drive system should work. Again the warp points in your mod need to be removed and a true star trek propulsion system should be adopted."

The ships are my own models. I wanted to have full control over there use. I could not have full control over the use of other people’s models so I made my own. As for the ship designs I used for the races you listed, well I just made them up. I attempted to make them as true to forum as I could, but without having anything to base designs on, I opted to go with some creative license. I will not get into the warp point or drive discussion again. I have explained this to you many times now.

"I compared your federation models to the ships in star fleet command and Armada, and they do not look anything like them. As to the warp drive and warp point discussion you have not yet told me why you will not adopt a true star trek type of propulsion and do away with warp points."

Thanks for your emails. If you have any more comments please post them on the forum. I am not going to have the time to respond to any more of your emails.

(He sent a few more) - Note: Tommy I have tried to explain things to you, you have not posted on the forum so the loss is yours.