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Old September 1st, 2009, 04:09 AM
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WraithLord WraithLord is offline
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Trophy Template for reducing late game MM hell

Hi,

Last year I went through quite a few end game phases. Even now, I'm involved in a very MM intensive game - Asia Twist - in which the last turns take me more than 7 hours (I actually measured the time). Granted, I am quite pedant when processing turns and like to have every fine grained detail just so but still I estimate that end game turns are MM hell to every player who got there. Personally I find the end games painful, I can't avoid that, If I know that I can min-max I will do so and that results in extreme MM.

So, I'm looking to compile a list of mods and/or house rules geared towards the reduction of MM in end game.
I'm bringing this to discussion and once a general consensus is reached I personally have no intention of ever creating or joining a game that doesn't follow MM reduction guidelines.

EDIT: compile with current responses.
EDIT: Please note that the items are stated b/c of how they influence MM. It doesn't mean all games should adhere to them but rather that they are guidelines for creating games with lesser endgame MM. Consensus means that it is agreed that these items effect MM. Not that everyone wants to remove them from now on.
The mandatory items are one that I believe have such a drastic influence on MM and relatively harmless side effects that they can safely be removed from new games (that aim at less MM).

Guideline for reducing endgame MM that are generally acceptable:
1. No gem gens.
Note: Efforts are being made at modding for compensating gem gen reliant nations.

2. Determine an upper limit on map sizes, # of players and reasonable victory conditions. Consensus
10-12 players, 10-15 provinces per player, 40% capital VPs victory condition.
Note. MM is in direct relation to how many provinces one controls at end game. Worst case scenario (MM wise) is 2 powers each controlling 30-40% of the map making war.
# of players and victory conditions have similar effect.

3. No Diplomacy. i.e. RAND.
Diplomacy is not directly related to MM but cutting that part of the game results in faster turn processing. Plus, it allows for different patterns of gaining victory (no alliances, NAP turtling, dog piling etc) which could be refreshing on it's own right.


The list below are controversial ideas, they may work for reducing MM but can have side effects on game balance or feel.

1. Ban MM intensive nations. Like blood dom spreaders. LA R'lyeh.
Note that some nations increase MM for neighbors (LA R'lyeh)

2. Ban MM intensive spells. Like astral corruption and Forge.
Note, I consider AN, utterdark and BoT to be actually MM reducers b/c they end games faster.
AC causes everyone to go crazy with body guards and returning (and managing the astrals on mages) so contributes to heavy MM.
Forge caster essentially needs to forge and distribute 60 items per turn. In some cases a portion of the items needs to be sent to allies or investors. IMO, it's better if its removed from the table.

3. CBM increase gem cost of spells and items.
Note: I'd say increasing cost of tarts is a must. Not MM related - just boring same same end game every-time.

4. Low gem income (like LA settings).
Reason: more gems = more forge/rituals = more MM
In end game this gets to insane levels. You forge 50-60 items per turn. You summon lot's of tarts and other SCs. You equip and change equipment as needed. You cast and protect from artillery and assassination spells. Enormous amount of work.

5. Ban blood.

6. Ban dwarven hammers

Last edited by WraithLord; September 3rd, 2009 at 04:58 AM..
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