Fundamentals and Gamey

[Taera]

Call me crazy, call me dumb and not a sport, but its not the way for a game that was meant to bring RP aspect into a non-RP world wit gamey tactics and calling them "fundamentals" as Geo stated somewhere.

You all should by now know what im talking about.
Max tech? ok, 50% intilligence. Always 50% on ground combat and political savvy unless its a REAL long going game. As well, 51% in ER wont hurt, you'll just get it from the reproduction.

The points? Its aint no fun. While i agree its fully agreeable by the game it is similar to cheating in other games. Dont get too excited, i will explain myself.

What is cheating, speaking from a non-cheater perspective? This is a serious edge for the other player that makes it a sure win for him. You can win, but only if you cheat.

Why am i saying this? For KOTH people been maxing out their attack/defense and taking berzerker race ending up with a nice 130% base chance to hit and to not be hit. The point, in this case unless you choose the same thing you're screwed. You simply cannot hit someone (well, not as much as needed) with a base of 130% defense unless you have 130% attack yourself, and vice versa - you cannot survive his onslaught with 130% base attack if you dont take 130% defense yourself.

I agree that by coincidence and luck and brilliant mind this *MIGHT* be overcomed but thats not the way.

I know im opening a big can of worms, but i just can not not post it.

[Shadowstar]

You might like to know that those problems are being fixed in my Starscape mod. I'm modifying the point cost percent increases and minimums/maximums to promote better balance.

Of course, the more beta testers I get, the better I can balance this feature.

[Nodachi]

Call me crazy

OK, you're crazy!

call me dumb

That I won't do. Your argument is too well thought-out for that to be true.

You are, however, using a straight-up kill or be killed game as the basis for your conclusions. The KOTH games are not meant to be RP in any way, shape, or form. They are about who is the best player, who can tweak their empire and strategies for maximum effectiveness.

In an RP game you'll see something completely different. People will set-up their empires in such a way as to be fun to play and to interact with.

As to some of your specific points; yes, in a max tech game you would lower your intelligence stat. This would represent a race that is no longer spending their resources on research. Same goes for a no-intel game.

None of this is cheating. Cheating is breaking the rules. In this case that would mean hacking files or taking actions that are contrary to an individual game's description and set-up.

I know im opening a big can of worms, but i just can not not post it.

You're right, I think it's safe to say that most people are going to disagree with your viewpoint but at least around here they'll be nice about it.

[Taera]

you sure? *takes a quick glance around*

lucky noone knows where i live

[Taera]

my point is, a lot players take those 50%'s in most of their games. when someone does that, you have the choice of either being a genious and winning or doing same thing and having chances or not doing or being any of the above and dying.

[Taera]

ok, i go a little radical but still.

[Shadowstar]

One of the unique things about Starscape is that RP is actually rewarded in the game itself. You can use a dynamic roleplaying system to actually invent your own components, facilities, etc. which are then unique to your race, but you can sell them to others if they are willing to buy them. (it's even possible to RP with an ally and invent stuff as a joint effort - for example the Unity Starbase in Starfleet Command III)

There are a number of other RP-related things, such as politics and exploration, as well as an independent mIRC-based classic RPG game in the tradition of the old tabletop RPG's which can be played (usually on the weekends) and will have effects in the game itself. Imagine creating a character as the captain of one of your largest in-game flagships and giving him a daring mission on an alien world, and he ends up discovering a new technology that your empire can then use in the game... It's also possible for races to carryover thier accomplishments from past games into the next game. Races are either indigenous or non-indigenous (non-indigenous is usually reserved for the players who are playing the same race in a new game-region). Non-indigenous races start with technology based on thier previous levels (though none of the fields will be as high), but won't have any planets to start with. They have a massive colony ship and must find a viable world to colonize, so although they will have better tech than the indigenous races, they won't have the resources of a homeworld to use, and the indigenous races (with the resources of thier homeworlds) will likely advance much faster, and should be able to catch up to the non-indigenous races by the time they have established a colonial empire with a similar economy value.

RP also plays a part in allowing races to creatively discover new technology, aside from the old method of colonizing planets with ruins on them, game-events (which I, as the gamemaster create) can give players "quests" which they can complete to find new technology.

Of course, all of this is driven by my dynamic mod-updating system which allows me to make changes to the actual mod data without disrupting the flow of the game.

Hopefully this post wasn't incredibly off topic, but I figure we're talking about RP versus Gamey, and my mod aims to eliminate Gamey while promoting RP to the maximum extent. After all, that's what Starscape for Stars! did. SEIV just gives me so much more flexibility...

[DavidG]

Yea calling taking %50 in a trait cheating is pretty radical. I also kind if curious how everyone seems to know what everyones stats are in the KOTH??? In my current game I only took 100% in both defense and offense and while I may eventually lose the game is at turn 135 or so and is the most fun game I've ever played. And that is the whole point right?

I think if the %50 thing really bothers you you should try some mod that changes this. I know Fyrons Adamant mod (which is still a work in progress) changes things so that take %50 is not really worth it. I'm sure there are others.

[Rollo]

Calling this gamey or even cheating opposed to role-playing races makes no sense to me.
Hey, how about if I like to role-play a highly combat effective and aggressive race? Ever think about that?

Rollo

[Ragnarok]

I don't see the gameiness or cheating of this either. I think it is perfectly fine if someone wishes to go 50% in one area or boost their defensive capibilties by 20%.
I haven't done it in a KOTH game but from what I hear it will greatly inprove my chances of winning if I choose these settings. So I may have to do that for my next game. But for any of my other PBW games I wouldn't do it unless I'm RPing a highly agressive and defensive race. Which most of the time I'm not, I try to be peaceful and allie with alot be different races.
As long as the game permits it then it is not cheating. If they were hacking the files and making it to where they could get 130 in aggressive abilities then yes that is cheating. But as long as they do these things in the game paramerters then there is nothing wrong with it.
But I can still see where you are coming from.