Modhack Modifier querry

[AxisWarlord]

Hello gents,

I have another querry regarding Mobhack.
The Formation Modifiers,
Are they Cumulative??

ie. If a Platoon/Sec has a +1/+1 Mod and that Plt is in a Company, and the Company has a +3/+3 Mod,
Does the Plt end up with a Cumulative +4/+4 Mod when bought as part of the Company??

Can't seem to find an answer to that anywhere.

Regards,

PS: Any idea when the SPWWII 4.5 Upgrade is coming?,

I have many Corrective Mods to the German OOB
(like:
WH size for AT rifles - +2 Seriously , for a 7.92mm or 13mm bullet vs correct WH size 1,
or incorrect ammo ammount - HE instead of AP for AT weapons,
Major OOB corrections per KtSNs, not Nafzinger who misinterpreted many of these - especially Aufkl OOBs,
correct tank Modifications per period of introduction - like armour upgrades that seem to be missing,
placement of said tanks in correct Class types, etc)
that I would like to submit for it.

[Mobhack]

Q1) Exp/Mor modifiers

The company modifier overrides any modifier in a subordinate platoon.

Put a +3/+3 platoon under a 0/0 company, and the platoon gets 0/0 and vice versa.

Q2) Patch Release date

Please read the first sentence of the sticky announcing the version 4.5 patch, posted at the top of the main forum.

Q3) OOB mod requests

Please read the sticky at the top of this sub-forum regarding OOB Error Reporting procedure - and read through the posts here to see how others have gone about it.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

Originally Posted by AxisWarlord

I have many Corrective Mods to the German OOB
(like:
WH size for AT rifles - +2 Seriously , for a 7.92mm or 13mm bullet vs correct WH size 1,
or incorrect ammo ammount - HE instead of AP for AT weapons,
Major OOB corrections per KtSNs, not Nafzinger who misinterpreted many of these - especially Aufkl OOBs,
correct tank Modifications per period of introduction - like armour upgrades that seem to be missing,
placement of said tanks in correct Class types, etc)
that I would like to submit for it.

At least once a year someone decides we need to be enlightened and mostly its the result of not understanding how the game is put together which that "HE instead of AP for AT weapons" and "placement of said tanks in correct Class types" remarks seems to indicate but please, do as Andy suggests, read the procedure then post a few of the "errors" you believe we have made and we'll have a look see but please also count how many empty unit slots are available (14) before making suggestions about what we should be adding.

as for "WH size for AT rifles ". a L O N G time ago we agreed on 2 for AT rifles but if you want to see the difference run WW2_APCalc.exe with a test EXE against two ATR, one with WH size 1 and the other with WH 2 and tell me what you see when you click on the weapon over and over which simulates the average of 1000 shots.........what you will see is basically the same numbers appearing but the WH size 2 is slighly more stable at mid range which makes ATR with WH 2 just slightly less useless at anything beyond 2 hexes than WH size 1 does which is why we use WH2 for those weapons.

Don

[AxisWarlord]

Andy,

In regards to:

'Q1) Exp/Mor modifiers

The company modifier overrides any modifier in a subordinate platoon.

Put a +3/+3 platoon under a 0/0 company, and the platoon gets 0/0 and vice versa.'

Thanks for the 'Exp/Mor modifiers' reply - too bad they don't build on each other,
but I guess all games have their limitations - although I can work around this minor one.

Regards,
AxisWarlord

[AxisWarlord]

Don,

As to your note regarding
'a L O N G time ago we agreed on 2 for AT rifles',
I'm afraid that this is not consistent with reality - which I thought was a biggie for WinSPWW2 players,
nor is it even consistent with your own guidelines,
nor is it even applied evenly.


1. INCONSISTENCY

Just within the 'spob016.obf', without even looking at other OOBs, there are inconsistencies with the application of your '2 for AT rifles'.
Plus unit inconsistencies.

**Changes noted thusly**

ATR Wpns that have a '2' value.

a) (Wpn#88) 7.92mm PzB 38/39;
{While not conforming to other PzB units, Unit #263 - GebJg PzBuechse, using the Gewehr 33(t) rifle, seems fine due to the potential for mid-range ATR engagements in Mtn areas.}

b) (Wpn #135) PzB 783(r) [14.5mm PTRD-40];
b) (Wpn #136) PzB 784(r) [14.5mm PTRS-41];

Pls adjust the 2 units that use these, Unit #s 604 & 605 respectively, to conform to other PzB units,
**they should use SMG Wpn #216 - MP 722(f) in Slot 2 instead of Kar98 rifle**,
due to the short range nature of ATR engagements.

c) (Wpn #137) 7.92mm PzB M SS 41;

To adjust the applicable Unit, Unit# 603 Pzbuechse SS, to conform to other PzB and SS units,
**it should use Wpn #101 - 7.92 Mkb 42 (H) (that is currently an orphan wpn) in Slot 2
instead of Kar98 rifle**
- due to the short range nature of ATR engagements - and inaccuracy at range,
**plus, have a proper crew size of 3 as SS Hvy wpns often had larger crews and allows for the Hvy Rifle.**

d) similar (Wpn #139) PzB 770(p) [Polish WZ 35 or 35(p)]
{of which 886 Marosczek Bueche WZ 35 were captured, with some 630 issued and used during the French Campaign in May/June 1940, after which most were exported as while more accurate than PzB 38/39 they had an even shorter range which rendered them relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 50m vs 300m for PzB 38/39 using WH=1 using WW2_APCALC};

To adjust the applicable Unit, Unit# 601 Pzbuechse, to conform to other PzB units,
**it should use Wpn #152 MP34/I SMG in Slot 2 instead of Kar98 rifle**,
due to the short range nature of ATR engagements.

e) the (Wpn #140) PzB 782(e) [the widely acknowledged as ineffective Boyes ATR - scores of which were captured after Dunkirk,

**and should be renamed the 'PzB Boyes 782e' - see VIP Note at end.]**;

To adjust the applicable Unit, Unit# 607 Pzbuechse, to conform to other PzB units,
**it should use Captured Wpn #MP 749(e) SMG (the Sten?) in Slot 2 instead of Kar98 rifle**,
due to the short range nature of ATR engagements.

e) the also Obsolete (Wpn #142) 13mm Mauser T-Gewhr ATR;
Pre-war does not need the corresponding SMG adjustment as a sort of flux period.

f) and, not an ATR but a light Squeeze-bore ATG, the (Wpn #010) 2.8cm (-2.0cm squeeze-bore) sPzB 41 (listed as sPzB

61, and designed for Paratroops and Gerbirgsjager)

All the above have a '2' value.


g) Yet, the (Wpn #016) 7.92mm EW 141 (for which you have incorrect stats listed, with the exception of any AP
capability, that actually all apply to the developmental Mauser MG 141 - of which only possibly some 20 Maximum were produced and which had No AT capability as it was purely a MG -
AND FOR WHICH I HAVE LISTED BELOW THE CORRECT EW 141 VALUES as USED IN THE REVISED OOB I'M WORKING ON)
{60 EW 141 Manufactured: 5 - 1940, 35 - 1941, 20 - 1942. 40 EW 141 Used in PzKw IC vk601.}

and e) and the also Obsolete (Wpn #90) 13.2mm Mauser ATR
Pre-war does not need the corresponding SMG adjustment as a sort of flux period.

Both units above have a correct '1' WH value. ??


Very confusing to say the least,
and Not at all Consistent with your LONG agreed '2 for AT rifles' value?


2. MOBHACK GUIDELINES

Your 'Warhead Size Chart' clearly states that for Guns '1mm - 19mm = 1',
while 20mm-39mm = 2'.
Meanwhile, the 'ANTI-MATERIAL RIFLES' section properly notes that 'AP ammo will draw down (ie. loose effectiveness) very quickly with range'.
This is clearly reinforced in points 3 & 4 below.
Beyond effective range ATRs were only good against very lightly armoured vehicles or for harrassing fire.

[CONT]

[AxisWarlord]

3. REALITY

As noted, by trying numerous hit results by using WW2_APCALC over and over we see:

3. A) With using WH=1

a) - [Acc = 16, Range 13] PzB 38/39 (sometimes 2 at 300m) relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 300m, with consistent 4 Pen at 50m;
{Even though 703 PzB 38 were produced in 1939, just 62 of these weapons were used by the german troops in the invasion of Poland 1939. In November 1939 there were only 162 of the PzB 38 available. By 1 May 1940, 1,469 PzB 38/39 were available.}

***** Therefore, the following Unit changes need to be made to reflect the Historical availability of this Wpn as Only Special Forces (Brandenburger) and FJg would have utilized early availability PzB in Poland.
Unit #114 - Panzerbuechse - Change Available Date to 01/040 from 06/038.
Unit #250 - FJgPzBuechse - Change Available Date to 07/039 from 01/039.
Unit #263 - GebJg PzBuechse - Change Available Date to 04/040 from 01/039.
And Unit #471 - Brandenburger (Cdo Eng) Stays as is at 06/039
- they would have been the first users of this Wpn.*****

**Also, - as per 4. DATA below, adjust Ammo Loadout to 40 AP, 10 Sabot for each user of the PzB 38/39.
Plus, also adjust Wpn #88 PzB 38/39 [Sabot Pen = 4, Sabot Range = 9. Pen with Sabot at 50m = 6/7.**

b) - slightly larger calibre PTRD/PTRS

**[Acc = 16, Range 12? vs 14 - see EFFECTIVE RANGE note at end of section 4. DATA]**
with PTRD/PTRS relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 300-500m (but always 3 at 500m),
not quite consistent beyond 400m, almost consistent 4 Pen to 250m and 5 Pen at 50m;

While they were initially highly effective against light German armor and the sides of lightly armored medium tanks, another use for the 14,5 mm guns¨was by Soviet infantrymen to break the tracks of heavier vehicles like Tiger or Ferdinand or penetrate viewport armorglass. The only reason the Soviets kept them in production was cheap to manufacture, mass produce and swamp the enemy with lots of harrassing fire. Numerous accounts of German tank battles from mid-late war years reflect this very fact, not that they had any effectiveness in actually killing German armored vehicles, other than light armored car, by that stage of the war - sometime disabling was just as effective if the Germans could not recover their vehicles during a retreat.

c) - the slightly more accurate PzB M SS 41 - consistent 4-3 pen through 300m (vs inconsistent PzB 38/39)

**[Acc 18 vs Incorrect 16]**
with PzB M SS 41 also relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 300m,

**Although, with Sabot ammo [Sabot Pen = 4, Sabot Range = 8, PzB M SS 41 Ammo Loadout: 40 AP / 10 Sabot]**
(as also utilized on newly introduced EW141, since PzB M SS 41 retained until end-1943 vs 5/43 for PzB 38/39) gave a respectable up to 7 Pen at 50m using Sabot without changing effective range beyond 300m;
Pretty much the limit on what you could expect in upgraded performance from an ATR of this small calibre.

d) - PzB 770(p)
**[Acc = 18 vs Incorrect 16, Range 9 vs Incorrect Range 13]**
relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 50m, with Max 450m range,
but with a consistent 2 Pen to 300m - good vs light armoured cars / tankettes;

{Because the ammunition for this weapon had no hardened core but relied on the high velocity of the bullet, penetration performance dropped significantly at ranges beyond 300m (as Corrected above).
The lack of a hard core in the projectile (weight: 12.8g) this weapon fired is widely regarded as the foremost drawback of this weapon. The high velocity of the bullet made for an extremely staright flight path, therefore sights at a range of 300m were used.
Penetration performance is rated at 22mm of armor at 50m and 15mm at 100m (both at 60° impact angle), which sufficed for the successfull engagement of lightly armored vehicles early in the war,
but like other tank rifles the weapon was practically useless against tanks after 1940.
Some of the weapons were also given to and employed by italian troops.
Per (Good info source) http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/show...mp-Machineguns. }

e) - PzB 782(e) - relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 50m;

***[Acc = 14 vs Incorrect 16 - reflects its historical ineffectiveness,
Range 10 vs incorrect Range 13 - again, reflects its historical ineffectiveness
- plus, matches the range of the other 2 e) obsolete ATRs.
HEAT = 3 vs 4 - again, reflects its historical ineffectiveness.]***
**This Wpn is nearly similar to both other Obsolete ATRs Wpn #90 & Wpn #142 and requires change in Spob07 Great Britain, 15 Anzac, 30 Canada, and any other applicable nations also.**


g) - Meanwhile, with the Modern EW 141

***[Acc = 17 vs 16,
Range 18 vs 24 (heavier AP shell would likely not travel as far as HE, just common sense),
No HE Kill Value as designed for ATR use ONLY,
Sabot Pen = 4 , Sabot Range = 12 (was designated to use majority of available Sabot ammo - more plentiful in this calibre as uses minimal amount compared to say 50mm to 75mm Sabot shell
- as PzB 38/39 ATR was being phased out anyway in early 1943),
Ammo Loadout: 30 AP / 90 Sabot / No HE]***

with respectable 450m effective range (AP Pen = 3) to 450 using AP and/or Sabot,
although Sabot could Pen up to 7 at 50m,
5 Pen at 100m and consistent 4 Pen through 200m.
This pretty much displays the absolute upper limit on what could be achieved with a Modernized ATR converted from a MG and accurately reflects why most nations phased them out in favour of shaped charge weapons.

Not at all ineffective when used within accepted EFFECTIVE RANGE - per 4. DATA.


3. B) With using WH=2 [and even using Incorrect Values per Default OOB]


a) - PzB 38/39 - relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 300m, Consistent 4 Pen at 50m,
Very Minor differences - Consistent 3 to 300m & 2 Pen to 650 (vs 600m with WH=1).
Plus, No Sabot capability! ;

b) - PTRD/PTRS - relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 450-500m,
and 5 Pen at 50m, almost consistent 4 Pen to 250m.
Very Minor differences - not quite consistent at 300m & not quite consistent at 200m;

c) - PzB M SS 41 - also relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 250-300m,
Very Minor differences - not quite (vs) consistent to 300m.
Plus, No Sabot capability! ;

d) - PzB 770(p) - relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 300m,
Major Differences - Consistent 4 Pen at 50m, Consistent 3 to 300m.
Thus, making this almost equivalent to the PzB 38/39 - Which it WAS NOT! ;

e) - PzB 782(e) - relatively ineffective (AP Pen <3) beyond 50m,
Minor differences - nearly (vs) not quite consistent 2 Pen to 450m (vs 350m).
Thus, negligible effect other than increased plinking (harrassment) range.

g) - EW 141 - Major Differences and Inconsistencies!
With an astounding 600m (vs 450m) effective range (AP Pen = 3) using AP (but also 50% HE which it should Not have!),
Consistent 4 Pen to 100m (vs Farther 200m per ** above) using AP (but also 50% HE which it should Not have!),
Nealy consistent 3 Pen to 600m (vs 450m) using AP (but also 50% HE which it should Not have!),
Plus, yet again, No Sabot capability! ;


And with Correct WH=2,

f) - sPzB 41 - Only Ineffective (AP Pen <4) after 1,250m,
Respectable 6 Pen up to 900m,
Impressive 10 Pen up to 200m,
and a Very Impressive 13 Pen to 100m,
all using Sabot - as this is what the weapon was designed around from the start, with HE capability (which is completely missing from the game) added slightly later in 1941.

[But,
*****Adjust Ammo Loadout of Following sPzB 41 Units as follows to reflect 1 HE : 3 Sabot Ratio
- per 5. PRODUCTION:

Unit #115 - 28/20mm sPzB41 - Revise name to '28/20mm sPzB41' - see VIP Note at end,

NOTE re: HTs - Revision Data Tentative as awaiting Panzer Tracts 15-1/2/3
in regards to correct ammo loadout and crew/passenger size.
Current #'s seem off as SkKfz 250 type HTs should not have lrgr AMMO loadout than 251 type HTs.

Unit #166 - SdKfz 250/11 - Tentatively Revise Ammo Loadout to 30 HE, 60 Sabot,
Unit #218 - SdKfz 251/10a - Tentatively Revise Ammo Loadout to 40 HE, 60 Sabot,
Also requires new LBM as picture shown is incorrect - 251/9.
Unit #423 - SdKfz 221/2 - Revise as to both Name 'SdKfz 221/2 MG' and AMMO loadout to 30 HE, 60 Sabot,
Unit #426 - SdKfz 221/2 - Revise as to both Name 'SdKfz 221/2 MG' and AMMO loadout to 30 HE, 60 Sabot.]*****

[CONT]

[AxisWarlord]

4. DATA

Excerpt From Wolfgang Feischer's 'PANZERFAUST and other German Infantry Anti-Tank Weapons'
- 1994 Schiffer Publishing Ltd.

"Production of the Panzerbuchse 38 was begun in 1938. It had a complicated breech and was delivered only in small numbers. In Poland there were 62 in service. The simplified Panzerbuchse 39 followed in 1939 and was introduced among the Panzerbuchse troops of the rifle companies. 9,645 of these weapons reached the troops in 1940.
{568 PzB 39 were used by the german army in the invasion of Poland (Brandenburg/FJg Only); two years later, at the beginning of the war against russia, 25,298 PzB 39 were in use by german troops; total production form March 1940 to November 1941, when production ceased, was 39,232 rifles.
Per http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ww2...-a-7069-2.html }

Both Panzerbuchse types fired the {Patrone 318} 7.92mm SmK H Rs L-Spur cartridge.
The bullet, weighing 14.6 grams, could penetrate steel 25mm thick.
{With the Pzb 39 a new round was introduced, the Patrone 318 SmK(H) Rs L'spur, used by both PzB 38/39.
SmK meant 'Spitzgeschoss mit Kern' (pointed bullet with core),
SmK(H) = 'Spitzgeschoss mit Kern (Hart)' (pointed bullet with core (Hard)) meant the same projectile that featured a tungsten-carbide core,
Rs stood for 'Reizstoff' (irritant agent) because the projectile also contained a small amount of tear gas,
L'spur for 'Leuchtspur' (bright trace = tracer) indicating the bullet had a small tracer in its rear.
Patrone 318; Vo 1,210 m/s; armor penetration 30mm of homogeneus plate at 100m with the Tugsten core
and 28 mm with the steel core bullet.
Production of the Patrone 318 ran until August 1942.} (See 5. PRODUCTION.)

Its use against tanks was questionable from the start, for at this time the transition to armor that was secure from shells was completed. This cast doubt on the whole question of the continuing development of earlier Panzerbuchse types, which as still going on then, including those with calibres of up to 20mm.

This also sealed the fate of the Waffen-SS designs, which included a 7.92mm Panzerbuchse, the M SS 41. The Panzerbuchse M SS 41 resulted from a Waffen SS contract . . . It was also made to fire the 318 SmK H Rs L-Spur (caliber 7.92mm) cartridge.
Russian armoured scout cars and light T-26 tanks could be attacked successfully with it at distances from 20 to 50 meters. Despite well-aimed penetrating shots, it rarely put the tank out of action.
This made the further development of the 38, 39 and M SS 41 Panzerbuchse questionable.

The heavy Panzerbuchse 41 (sPzB41 - used by FJg and Geb units), which came close to the antitank guns in terms of its size and weight and exceeded them in penetrating power, is also noteworthy.

The Red Army had more than 18,000 tanks, including 1,225 T-34 and 636 KV types with shell-safe armor plate. (Like the UK's Matilda,) They lowered the 3.7cm Pak gun to a mere 'tank door-knocking device' and caused complicated combat situations even in the first days of the campaign. Suddenly there was an acute shortage of effective antitank weapons, even the new 5cm Pak 38 was not sufficient.

The infantry suffered particularly from tank attacks. At times panic resulted, in which fear of tanks spread . . . new and effective weapons and combat methods were needed. From then on, the equipping of the infantry with modern close-combat weapons was given more attention. It was not easy to achieve this.
Already existing antitank weapons with heavy bullets had no perspective.

That was shown by the Panzerbuchse 39. {Given the limited efficience of the 7.92mm Patrone 318 in the mid war years it was decided to convert many of remaining Pzb 39s into grenade launching rifles - the Gr.B.39.
That meant the way to defeat armor became hollow charge grenades instead of kinetic energy, hard core bullets.
Starting 1942, the PzB 39 were rebuilt with a shortened barrel (59cm) and an affixed schiessbecher (grooved rifle grenade launching attachment) as grenade rifles with the designation Granatenbuchse Modell 39 ('grenade rifle model 39'). The grenade was frontally loading while the chamber was loaded with a special blank cartrigde for projection purposes (treisspatrone). The rifle could also launch the standard explosive, marking or training grenades that were also used by the K-98K.
Per (Good info source) http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/show...ineguns./page5 }
Every grenadier company was supposed to receive three Granatbuchse 39.

The heavy Panzerbuchse 41 {sPzB41}, with a weight of 229 kilograms, was too heavy, as well as much too expensive and complex to produce. In the autumn of 1941, numerous efforts to develop new antitank weapons began.
By 1943, an almost unimaginable variety of them existed."

EFFECTIVE RANGE excerpt from PANZERFAUST - p47.
a) - PzB 38/39 - 25mm Pen to 300 meters;
b) - PTRD/PTRS - 30mm Pen to 100 meters;
(Although, based on above results with WH=1, I think range should likely be adjusted to 12 vs 14. Thoughts? )
c) - PzB M SS 41 - N/A;
d) - PzB 770(p) - 30mm Pen to 100 meters.
(Although 50m based on Calc above with WH=1 seems reasonable, especially as they were phased out of German usage after the French 1940 campaign.)

[CONT]

[AxisWarlord]

5. PRODUCTION
{Also, per http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/panzerbuchsen-R.htm}
{Panzerbüchsen-Fertigung (production) in WW2:

1939 1940 1941 1942 1943
Panzerbüchse 38
703 705 -- -- --
Panzerbüchse 39
-- <1,000 9,645 29,587 -- --
Gr.B.39 (grenade launcher ver)
-- -- -- 1,416 26,607
schwere Panzerbüchse 41 (sPzB 41)
-- 90 339 1,029 1,324

Die Munitionsfertigung für die Panzer-Büchsen 38 und 39 sowie für die schwere Panzerbüchse 41
(in 1.000 Schuß)
Ammunition production for ATR PzB 38/39 and for sPzB 41 Squeeze-bore gun (in 1,000 shots):
1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944
Patrone 318:
780,0 1,864,1 4,726,9 2,046,4 -- --
s.Pz.B. 41 Sprenggranate(HE):
-- -- 9,2 373,3 130,1 --
s.Pz.B. 41 Panzergranate(Sabot):
-- 156,2 889,5 270,0 287,1 -- }

An approx 1 : 3.12 sPZB 41 ratio of HE vs Sabot.

Also,
**Modify Wpn #10 to probable 8 HE Kill Value to allow for sPzB 41 Sprenggranate HE, and more correct Wpn name 2.8cm sPzB41/61 to reflect wheeled / mounted usage.**


All in all, a fairly convincing argument to use the WH=1 Value for ATRs,
**with the modifications/corrections as noted above,**
as ATRs should not be big tank killers.
Beyond their effective range, relatively short for most rifles, as shown on P47 of PANZERFAUST and excerpted above,
ATRs were only usefull for harrassing during their interim lifespan until more effective AT wpns came along.

I think this helps demonstrate my point,
and shows I only talk about something after ensuring extensive research.


VIP Note: Minor Name Revisions will make more sense once I submit the revised German OOB, for which I also base my revisions using detailed data from Jentz, Speilberger, KSTNs, etc.

I have already revised the Pzkw IV units, Armd Car units and PzAufkl units as to proper Armour and Ammo loadouts, Armor and dates, and minor re-sorting classes and will submit revised German OOB once Pzkw III, Panther and HT revisions are complete, and of course, fully documented per forum instructions.

I have even added in many missing AC Fu(4,6,8), Pzkw Befhls III & IV and Pzkw Beob III & IV units
- plus, 2 prototype Pzkw IIGvk903 and Panther Beob.
This of course includes new Aufkl formations to reflect those missing or incorrect,
and any revised formations affected by any Wpn or unit changes or reorganization due to KSTN or availability.

ie. As an example, I give you the Schuerzen (steel or mesh skirting on tanks) ratings that are way off.
How is the Pzkw IV with Schuerzen any better or equally armoured on the Hull Side than the thicker Panther II with same Schuerzen??
Meanwhile, the Pzkw IVF Vorpanzer is not even represented in the game??

Will Explain fully when I submit
- still having to compare unit by unit and formation by formation with the revised OOB that you guys snuck in during the middle of revising. Grumble, Grumble, Grumble.
Although, I really like the new #200 - Sfl. Sturer Emil addition!
and the T-70 is ok.

Regards,
AXISWARLORD

[AxisWarlord]

Don,

As to your comment re:
'not understanding how the game is put together which that "HE instead of AP for AT weapons" and "placement of said tanks in correct Class types" remarks seems to indicate',
please note the "HE instead of AP for AT weapons" refers to the following units with Incorrect Ammo (HE) vs (AP) placement for Anti-Tank Ammo and confirmed by the above noted 'PANZERFAUST' reference as purely AT Wpns, Not HE Wpn:

Unit #354 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot 4 - Wpn #184 - Panzerhandmine 3 with 130mm Pen ability.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 97, 177, 206, 213, 257, 287, 292, 511, 512, 716, 725, 757 and 766 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.

Unit #694 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot - Wpn #186 - improved Panzerhandmine 4 with 150mm Pen ability.
Again, the same problem as above.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 639, 649, 654, 659, 664, 674, 684, 690, 717, 758, 767 and 798 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.

Unit #695 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot - Wpn #222 - Panzerwurfmine L with 100mm Pen ability.
Again, the same problem as above.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 640, 650, 655, 660, 665, 675, 685, 689, and 797 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.

Unit #696 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot - Wpn #223 - imporved Panzerwurfmine K with 150mm Pen ability.
Again, the same problem as above.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 641, 651, 656, 661, 666, 676, 686, 691, and 799 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.

and Lastly,
Unit #697 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot - Wpn #224 - Hafthohlladung 3 with 140mm Pen ability.
(I noticed the Hafthohlladung 3.5 with 170mm Pen ability is not used in the game??)
Again, the same problem as above.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 642, 652, 657, 662, 667, 677, 687, 692, and 800 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.


Regards,
AXISWARLORD

PS: Besides, if I shot off at the mouth without researching, or understanding what I'm talking about, I would not have been able to have some 32 articles published in Defence Magazines, incl:
CdnDefQuarterly; Vanguard; CdnDefReview; AirIntl and online SAOC website.
Plus, even a wargaming article 'Adding Realism to Stalingrad Pocket (I)' in 'Operations the Wargaming Journal'.

Cheers!

[DRG]

..and if you had simply posted the info instead of airily saying "I have many Corrective Mods to the German OOB " then providing a few deliberately vague examples while dissing Nafzinger and HADN'T used a fanboy moniker like "AxisWarlord" ( those are always red flag eyerollers...) MAYBE we might have taken you a bit more seriously and maybe the corrections would have made it to the game in time for the patch......maybe.

I have put your concerns on the to-do list to investigate.


Don