Weird but True -- What a way to Maximize Power! (probably a bug)

[tinkthank]

Wearing items as a Communication master will transfer the special power of these items to their slaves. Thus a communication master with the Armor of Virtue on will give Ritual of Returning to all his/her slaves, or a Master with the Scultata V. shield automatically gives his/her slaves Charge Body.

(At least this is the case if the battle opens with the master wearing the armor and a crystal matrix -- have not yet tested for cases where the Master must first actually cast Master.)

EDIT: The really weird thing is, that even the ritual effects will remain after the battle is done. Thus a Slave who received the Ritual of Returning spell maintains the Ritual benefit (little blue returning star icon) after the battle is done, forever: e.g. s/he has returning on him/herself in the strategic map view on all consequtive turns.
(This can be exploited by slapping powerful artifacts on a Master and some Matrixes on just about anyone and have them take turns participating in battles -- soon all your commanders can be ritualized this way.)

I haven't seen this mentioned before. This seems a wee bit overpowerful to me, and illogical, and thus probably an accidental oversight. I havent tested this with all of the big scary Unique items yet, I just discovered this by accident (wondering why all my communicants had Rit of Returning on them). That is why I am guessing it is a bug, but perhaps someone can tell me otherwise.

[ July 23, 2004, 14:14: Message edited by: tinkthank ]

[archaeolept]

wow. nice bug discovery. I certainly have never noticed it. thanks.

[Gandalf Parker]

heehee. Enjoy it fast because I bet it shows up on the next patch.

[Taqwus]

Eeeeeeeeyagh!

I suppose this occurs because these items auto-cast self-targeting spells at the beginning of each battle, and with the matrixes the usual communion rules apply... although this should only happen if the matrixes take effect before item autocasts. If the matrixes took place /after/ the first wave of autocasts, then it'd be fixed.

In the meantime, one might wonder about the Sandals of the Crane and whether that might cause some amusing weirdness.

[Jack Simth]

Probably an unintended consequence of how they choose to make magic items work, and how they chose to make communion work -

Suppose every magic item was a base item that cast some number of spells on some timing as though it were the caster casting the spell (combat turn (spirit helm's lightning), start of combat (Staff of Storms' Storm), combat use (Dragon Helmet's Fire BLast), tactical use (Gift of Kurgi's Send Horror), or whatever) and/or had an additive effect to some set of stats.

As Communion master/slave is just another spell, the Communion/Slave matrix could just serve to cast the appropriet spell on a "start of combat" timing.

Now suppose that the Communion/Slave matrix effectively happened before the spells cast from some other items:
1) the master/slave spells take effect
2) the other items cast their spells as though the bearer was casting them
3) any "self" spells from (2) cascade through the communion to the communion slaves.

If the Armor of Virtue cast "Ritual of Returning" on a combat start timing, that could explain what you see; a suggestion to test and see if that is how it works would be to attempt it using items which create spell effects (especially those which don't stack with the spells), such as a Robe of Invulnerability, Shadow Cloak, Fire Shield, or Air shield.

Oh, I just had a nasty vision - Conscious exploitation of this effect - Mass production of slave matrixes and Communion matrixes, a few items (Fire shield, cloak of invulnerability, air shield, Boots of Stone, Crystal Shield, maybe medallion of vengence, et cetera) placed on several masters (mages (or non-mages, even) with Crystal Matrices), who then just hang out in the back (or even retreat), while the communicants (cheap scounts with Slave Matrices) charge. Imagine facing down an army of even 20 such slaves - all of whom have charge body, mirror image, fire shield, air shield, invulnerability, etherial, quickness, ... who can be replaced at a cost of 10 Earth, 10 Astral, and either 20 gold (scouts) or a few gems (cheap commander summons, such as the Black Servant). Maybe they aren't full fledged SC's, but they would sure be effective as thugs. It would even be possible to get extra effects in there from the masters casting spells - one casts Astral shield, one casts Astral weapon, one casts Summon Earth Power (for the reinvig, not the +earth), one casts soul vortex, one casts Pheonix Pyre (for the kaboom if someone actually manages to kill one) - at a cost of one combat round for both the masters and the SuperScouts.
ugh. Nasty.

The SuperScouts could be placed in a row up front (they are cheap), the masters (one of which has a staff of storms to prevent an attack by fliers - beware Caleum! (sp?)) with bodygaurds - perhaps give the masters winged shoes for a faster retreat (maybe even give some of the masters slave matrices as well)

[Sandman]

Oh, I just had a nasty vision - Conscious exploitation of this effect - Mass production of slave matrixes and Communion matrixes, a few items (Fire shield, cloak of invulnerability, air shield, Boots of Stone, Crystal Shield, maybe medallion of vengence, et cetera) placed on several masters (mages (or non-mages, even) with Crystal Matrices), who then just hang out in the back (or even retreat), while the communicants (cheap scounts with Slave Matrices) charge. Imagine facing down an army of even 20 such slaves - all of whom have charge body, mirror image, fire shield, air shield, invulnerability, etherial, quickness, ... who can be replaced at a cost of 10 Earth, 10 Astral, and either 20 gold (scouts) or a few gems (cheap commander summons, such as the Black Servant). Maybe they aren't full fledged SC's, but they would sure be effective as thugs. It would even be possible to get extra effects in there from the masters casting spells - one casts Astral shield, one casts Astral weapon, one casts Summon Earth Power (for the reinvig, not the +earth), one casts soul vortex, one casts Pheonix Pyre (for the kaboom if someone actually manages to kill one) - at a cost of one combat round for both the masters and the SuperScouts.
ugh. Nasty.

Slave matrixes don't work on non-mage units. At least it didn't when I tried this tactic. Might work on priests, though.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Wow, I wonder what giving a Matrix to an unit that comes with its own builtin Blood Vengeance could do.

[Taqwus]

I doubt that it'd do anything, actually. It likely needs to be from a spell effect that gets cast at the beginning of battle, and not an always-on effect.
There aren't that many, IIRC; most auto-casters are either summons or battlefield enchantments (storm, battle fortune, life after death, light of the northern star etc). Items like the copper breastplate would do this because it autocasts a self-spell instead of being always-on.

[Jack Simth]

A few quick tests....

It worked with:
Crystal Shield (+1 magic on all slaves without the extra encumberance, and using a misc slot rather than a hand slot, for a reduced price. Very useful.)
Copper Plate (charged body passed)
Armor of Virtue (erratically - I had a commander without a slave matrix pick up the effect, while a commander with the slave matrix didn't)
Sandals of the Crane (sort of - every time the wearer teleported, so did all the slaves - not different timings)

It did not work with:
Shield of Valor (missle protection not passed)
Barkskin amulet (protection + not passed))
Wraith Crown (etherialness not passed)
Fire Shield (fire shield not passed)
Robe of Invulnerability (no bonus to protection)
Stone Boots (no +protection)

Okay - it wouldn't be too much of a nightmare - but it could still get pretty bad.

[tinkthank]

Did you test only with the matrixes or also with casting of Master? I havent tested yet, am away this weekend in Brandenburg, will be back monday.

Argh, this really is a nightmare though, especially for Pythium, and also for anyone with easy access to matrixes (Arco and Ryleh primarily, even Machaka and Van or basically anyone with either and astral or an earth and a random).

The in-battle transfer of the Crystal Shield is bad enough (argh!!!!), but it's the rituals that get me -- an entire army of freely "ritual of returning" starspawn, egads!

I wish I didnt find this, but it is true -- without meaning to, I have over 50 Communicants with Ritual of Returning on them in 1 turn, for free, and this is EXACTLY what I want on Communicants. Argh!