Strawberry Vanilla MOD

[se5a]

ok, I am haveing a go at making a mod.
basicly I want the original flavor of the game with some annoying unballences fixed, and a handfull of things added.
I have started with PVKs ballance mod...
erm is that ok with you pvk?
and so far I have added small organic armor, small christiline armor.
going to add small seeking parisites.
I also want to make the massive planetry shield generator better, any ideas for this?

also what things do you find annoying, which would be fairly easy to add/change but still keep the original feel?


edit, ok stuck 3 levels of small seeking parasite, it does 30 damage at range 3 of the first level, 80 dam range 4! level 3, and only takes up 5kt.
there is a catch however, it can only target ftr/sat/drones.

[ December 05, 2003, 10:54: Message edited by: se5a ]

[Fyron]

Keep in mind that the abilities of OA and CA do not work on units. It is still a good idea to have small Versions, just don't think they will work as expected. Drop off the abilities and it will not be confusing.

also what things do you find annoying, which would be fairly easy to add/change but still keep the original feel?

The dominance of the DUC/PPB/APB line of weaponry. The fact that PPBs are not a special weapon as they should be, but rather a main line weapon. Meaning, they should not be very useful against non-shielded targets or against targets with phased shields, only powerful against ships with non-phased shields. The fact that armor is incredibaly weak. The fact that shield regenerators are useless in most situations because ships rarely survive the 7 rounds to make the shield regenerator useful once they start getting shot at. The fact that there are no special damage warheads for mines (ionic mines, tachyon mines, etc.). The fact that it is incredibly easy to conquer planets. Make defending milita per pop really low, and boost their HP and damage. Make ground combat Last 1 or 2 rounds. This will make ground combat take a lot longer, will allow the use of reinforcements on both sides, etc.

[ December 05, 2003, 15:45: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[primitive]

Some easy fixes that IMHO will improve the strategic part of the game without loosing the Vanilla flavour:
- Make upgrading facilities more worthwile.
-- Research I/II/III could be 500/700/900 points
-- Resources I/II/III could be 800/1000/1200 units
-- Space Yards I/II/III could build with 2000/3000/4000
- If you do the increased output/buildrate thing, you could also increase cost for certain items. Making larger shipsizes (way) more expensive will keep the ships smaller for a longer time and make smaller ships a viable option later in the game.
- Add 2 more levels of Armor before Stealth and Scattering. This is a double fix, both making armor stronger and delaying those cloacked raiders a bit.
- Improve mid and late game fighters. An easy way would be to make Medium 20 KT and Large 30 KT.
- Get rid of the Quantum reactor.
- Solar Sails, especially II and III are too cheap. Put extra levels of Solar Collectors in between making them worthwile as an alternative to the QR.
- Increase base cost of PPB ( x 2 or x 4 )
+++

[Phoenix-D]

Considering how cheap armor is for its effectiveness, I'd say its not weak. Aside from the need to repair after battle, of course..

[se5a]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Keep in mind that the abilities of OA and CA do not work on units. It is still a good idea to have small Versions, just don't think they will work as expected. Drop off the abilities and it will not be confusing.

AWww MAN!
so a small shield regen would not work eather?
so do you think I should make the small armor better than normal small armor, or keep it about the same?
I supose increasing these slightly would give a simular effect...
Ill change it to costing 15min (15 org) and giving it a space of 1 and a structure of 5.
it looks like emmisive armor works, maybe I could use that ability instead...

do you like my small parasite idea? do you think it is balanced?
lev 1:
dam at rng = 30 30 30 0 0 0 0 0 0
lev 2:
dam at rng = 55 55 55 0 0 0 0 0 0
lev 3:
dam at rng = 80 80 80 80 0 0 0 0 0

all have a structure of 5, and a reaload of 15, can only target ftr\sat\drone.

thanks for the other sugestions guys, ill have a play around with them

[se5a]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Make the massive planetary shields better? There are lots of things you could do... make them cheaper, give them more shields, make them phased, or even a combination of all 3!

ok, I have given it 30,000 phased shield points, I am a little reluctent to change the cost, in my opnion special tech SHOULD cost lots...

[PvK]

Originally posted by se5a:
...
I have started with PVKs ballance mod...
erm is that ok with you pvk?

Please do!

...
I also want to make the massive planetry shield generator better, any ideas for this?

I recommend the kinds of values for planetary shield generators I put in Proportions Mod. I strengthened them a lot so they are actually useful, and also made it so there were some available without ancient found tech, which aren't quite as good, and all of them require research to develop. Use freely.

also what things do you find annoying, which would be fairly easy to add/change but still keep the original feel?first level, 80 dam range 4! level 3, and only takes up 5kt.

Mainly, better weapon balance. See the Stock Balance mod thread, where we were discussing making a mod such as this to see if Malfador would include it in the next patch.

I'd say the fighter defensive to-hit items should be researchable up another three or more levels, to allow them to stay somewhat difficult to hit even when ships have Combat Sensors III (+65) and training (+40 or more), and PDC gives a +65 to-hit, since fighter ECM only gives +30, and afterburners (I forget - another +5 or +10). Basically, I think fighters should have devices which can eventually give them another +70 defense (or at least another +30) compared to what's possible in the existing game.

PvK

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Considering how cheap armor is for its effectiveness, I'd say its not weak. Aside from the need to repair after battle, of course..

Armor is only a viable alternative to standard shields when PPBs are in use. Otherwise... it is too weak. It can help a little against mines, where shields are useless, but mine sweepers are really cheap anyways, so that is not much of a benefit. Sure, shield depleters can do a lot of damage to shields, but you need a few of them to take out shielding on bigger ships. Use Armor III instead of Phased Shields V to prevent SD damage, and you will find your ships die much more easily. All I am saying is that armor should be a better alternative to shields than it is now. It just dead ends rather early (not counting the ECM armors and such, which are fairly weak in the hit point area).

do you like my small parasite idea? do you think it is balanced?

I like the idea, but the short range makes them useless. They need to be able to chase ships. As they are now, all ships have to do is move back a little and the seekers will hit their max range and die.

[ December 05, 2003, 19:04: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[PvK]

Yeah, to stay vanilla but improve it without changing it much, just add some extra levels of armor research where it gets significantly stronger and significantly more expensive. Probably should also add more levels to organic and crystalline armor as well, to be fair, but be careful not to make those get too much better - maybe just increase their sctructure at the higher levels, with little or no improvement to their special abilities.

PvK

[se5a]

[quote]Originally posted by PvK:

Mainly, better weapon balance. See the Stock Balance mod thread, where we were discussing making a mod such as this to see if Malfador would include it in the next patch.

you mean they might balance things in the next patch? I hope they do!!!

I'd say the fighter defensive to-hit items should be researchable up another three or more levels, to allow them to stay somewhat difficult to hit even when ships have Combat Sensors III (+65) and training (+40 or more), and PDC gives a +65 to-hit, since fighter ECM only gives +30, and afterburners (I forget - another +5 or +10). Basically, I think fighters should have devices which can eventually give them another +70 defense (or at least another +30) compared to what's possible in the existing game.

PvK

From what I can see looking at the afterburners they are not giving any defencive bonus at all...
adding some there would be an excelent idea though.
what if I add a small deffencive bonus to the higher tech small engines also?


I was keeping the small parasites targeting only units to make them uneque, I could change them to target ships also, but I would probibly need to increse the damage significantly, wich would make them unbalanced vs fighters.
I havent played round with the small rocket pods, havent even looked at the math on those, do they need adjusting?

also, in the game no wepons are showing up at all, and some other small items are not eather. what have I done???