Well...talk about an intimidating game!

[MadApple]

Hello all,

Short time lurker here and I figured it was time to start trying to learn something about this fantastic game for real.

For starters I should say 3 friends and I have purchased and we've been mostly playing games vs. the computer. I've about 30 games under my belt and 10,000 questions. However, I’ll limit myself to only 1 for the moment.

When making a pretender I have a high level strategy question. The ones like the Ghost king and Wrym I get, they are going to be on the front lines of battle killing things. The chassis like the Old Crone and the Sage I understand, they're cheap. They won't be on the battlefield if you can help it.

It's ALL the middle ones I don't understand. Take say the Father of the son or mother of serpents. Both cost around 100 and yet I don't see them really as viable SC's..or am I missing something? Seems to me that if you want to SC you really have to have astral (for the alterations) and you can't go much better than the worms regen as well...so why does anyone choose the pretenders of the other Titans.

It's driving me nuts..I’m SURE there is a lot I'm missing but if someone could lay out the logic I’d appreciate it.

[Baalz]

Well, one thing that you've got to realize about is a lot of Dominions design decisions seem to have been made for thematic/coolness reasons rather than balance. There are certainly many things in there that are not necessarily the most cost effective way to do things but can still be fun anyway because they make you play a different way, or just for role playing reasons. That being said, pretty much any of the large size pretenders with good hit points can make pretty good SCs if you design them with that in mind. For instance, with a little research depending on your magic paths you can cast invulnerability, personal luck, body ethereal, personal regeneration, quicken self, breath of winter, mistform, fire shield, etc. You can also get awe on any pretender by taking a high enough dominion score, and if you're in your own high dominion one of those titan pretenders will have several hundred hit points so if you stick a couple decent magic items on them they can be quite formidable. Additionally, a lot of them have little "flavor" (such as creating magic gems or preventing bad events) and some of them can be quite useful such as curing afflictions.

[MadApple]

alright thanks for the Baalz. I must say I'm enjoying the game a ton but even after 30 games I feel like I'm swiming in darkness.

Any sage words of advice about where to start when I want to become "serious" about the game?

[Halancar]

Those middle pretenders can all make good SC if you equip them (plenty of hp, the equipment can take care of the rest). They can usually give a decent bless (if their starting path match what you are looking for). And even without the bless, their good starting path mean you can easily boost them to where they'll cast the later game powerful spells. Particularly if you are planning to cast powerful battlefield spells, they won't die to a lucky arrow or an assassin.

I think they are a sort of compromise : you can get a better bless (usually) with a cheaper chassis, and there are better SC chassis and artillery chassis, but if you want a bless AND a SC, look for a titan.

[Shovah32]

The IRC channel(check the sticky) is a great place to start. There are usually atleast a few active people and if there aren't then check later. Alot of them will be willing to help you get to grips with the game or atleast answer questions you have.
Of course, if you want a challenge or just a crash course in dominions you could always go there and join a blitz .

[MadApple]

IRC huh? nicely old school for a nice old school game.

I'll try to pop in later to check it out.

Can i shoot one other question at you guys? There are a lot of battlefield spells that are close range..do these ever get used? I've tried but mostly my mages become toast when I try so I've stuck to the long range ones like blade wind.

[Shovah32]

Generally the long-ranged spells are mostly used but the shorter ranged spells have their uses. Either as unscripted self defence, dealing with assasins, or using their generally high damage(for research level) to take out alot of enemies fairly early on(I like EA caelian eagle kings with a bit of a bless to buff, fly in and cast shockwave for example).

[Archonsod]

MadApple said:
It's ALL the middle ones I don't understand. Take say the Father of the son or mother of serpents. Both cost around 100 and yet I don't see them really as viable SC's..or am I missing something?

They're the middle ground really. Having an SC pretender can be useful in the early game, but by the late game they're either surpassed or so crippled they're useless. The Crone and the like are useful for a more supportive magic role, but can be picked off by basic assassins, magical attacks (especially those which force a combat) or even being caught in an invasion of a province.
The mid-range SC's are a kind of compromise - they can't fight as well as the Wyrm, but they're skilled enough to see off an assassination attempt or survive the odd attack that would kill an Archmage. At the same time, you can usually afford to give them a couple of magical skills to keep them useful in the mid to late game, even if it's just as a summoning or item factory.
Some also suit particular strategies on the battlefield. For example, a titan with a poison cloud who is immune to poison themselves can be used alongside Pythium's Hydra's without worrying about being poisoned by their clouds. Take the correct spells and you can literally turn the battlefield itself into a weapon against your opponents.

Any sage words of advice about where to start when I want to become "serious" about the game?

You're already doing it. Just keep playing and experimenting and figure out what works and what doesn't. One of the things you find about dominions is that successful strategies depend as much upon your own playstyle as they do on the actual game itself.
You could also try some multiplayer games with those three friends you mentioned. If you're all beginners, you'll be able to learn a lot from seeing how each other play, including combinations and strategies which may not have occurred to you.

[Gandalf Parker]

Some of those middle-ground pretenders make good battle-mages. Someone who can "attack" for one round, and then cast close-area spells. They can survive long enough with enough magic to be battlefield useful. Such as, one of the dragons.

[Baalz]

Check out the Strategy Index sticky to for some insightful write ups that people have done about different facets of the game, nations in particular. It's a whole lot of information there, but a good place to start might be to pick a nation that you like and play around with some of the different suggestions written in the relevant strategy guide. It kinda gets you in the head of somebody with more experience playing that nation and limits the scope a bit while you're trying to get your bearings.