Strategic Mode Combat - Tricks, Hints, and Advise

[Commander G2]

We need more topics on how to play better than we do discussing bugs and mods, so I am starting one on tricks to use in multiplayer, strategic mode games.

I am currently losing a major war to another player (a good friend at my office) in a PBW game, but in the process we have both learned a lot about how to conduct combat in strategic mode. Here are a few things to consider in your current and future games.

To Hit modifiers are vital for Direct Fire weapons. Important Technologies to have are Advanced Military Science (Fleet/Ship training), Armor 4-6 (Stealth Armor and Scattering Armor), Sensors 1-3 and Combat Support 1-3 (ECMs). Also consider using a smaller hull to get better defense. For example, if you oppponent has a 20% chance to hit you, a smaller sized hull can decrease the chance to 10% or maybe even 1%, depending on how much smaller you go.

Possible Defense Factors: ECM III (60%), Scattering Armor III (15%), Stealth Armor(15%), Fleet Training(20%), Ship Training(20%), Hull Size (negative to +40), Range (10% per square beyond point blank) Racial Modifier(20%), Cultural Modifier(10%, but not working in 1.41).

Possible Attack Factors: Sensors III (60%, I think) , Fleet Training(20%), Ship Training(20%), Racial Attack Modifier, Cultural Modifiers(not working in 1.41). Some weapons also have a ToHit modifier in the Ripper Beam/Wave Motion Gun Tree.

As you can see, there are more ways to get
defense modifers than attack modifers. If you are having trouble hitting, make sure your ships have orders to fire at the 'nearest' ship rather than the biggest or smallest. Consider the following targeting order: Has Weapons, Nearest, Most Damaged, Smallest.

Depending on how the modifiers add up, you may often find that Destroyers are a better hull than Light Cruisers, Battle Cruisers or Battleships. Personally, I do not care much for Cruisers as they require more non functioning iron eating components, giving little advantage of Light Cruisers.

Other hints to consider: Target Seekers before Fighters.

Once you employ a fleet that exploits the To Hit modifiers in your favor, watch out for a Missle Heavy fleet. Missles automatically hit provoding the PDC do not shoot them down. My opponent referenced above has switched to using Battle Cruisers and Battleships with 9 Organic Parasites (Organic Missles with ROF 2) because he could not hit my Destroyers. His missleships do not require fleet training before he sends them off to battle and thus they are very disposable.

Another thing about ships with high defense, is they have no advantage in defending against ramming attacks, at least in the current Version. I would argue ship experience at least should be a factor to avoid a ram attack. Ramming was historically used frequently by the Greek ships around 300BC. In ramming in that era, crew experience was critical in getting the right angle in attack or in avoiding it as the defender.

Another thing I would recommend is training skeleton fleets with a cheap ship and add ships to them once they are fully trained.

Also, remember to give your fleets a better formation than arrow. Arrow is about the worst thing to use in most cases. Try using wall or spider. I usually use wall, unless I am defending a carrier or some other valuable ship, in which case I use Decoy or Spider instead.

[Commander G2]

I forgot to add, if you have trouble hitting, try using Short or Point Blank range so you ships will move in closer. Max Range is very bad for direct fire weapons, but great for missles. I am not sure on Optimal range, as I do not know the algorythm. I tend to use Optimal until I have problems hitting, then I switch to closer range.

[Rollo]

You make some good points and I agree with most of them. Just a few comments and additions:

I totally agree that ship and fleet training are very important. The neural combat net can be very useful to give your rookies the needed experience, if you don't have time to train them.

Attack factors: don't forget the talisman that will make your weapons always hit. Very powerful for long range direct fire in combination with engine destroying weapons that will keep the enemy from closing in.

quote:

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As you can see, there are more ways to get defense modifers than attack modifers. If you are having trouble hitting, make sure your ships have orders to fire at the 'nearest' ship rather than the biggest or smallest. Consider the following targeting order: Has Weapons, Nearest, Most Damaged, Smallest.

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I am in agreement with you except for the Last word. If you have trouble hitting, you should probably set the order: Has Weapons, Nearest, Most Damaged, Biggest.
Otherwise you will waste a lot of shots trying to hit that small ship, while the nearby dreadnought rips you apart .

ship hulls: my favorite hull is the light cruiser. While still getting defense bonus, you can use the large mount. Destroyers aren't bad, but they really lack the punch, because of the normal mount. They could still be good missile launchers, though.

missiles, ramming: really can't say much about that, because I have never used those, but since you can put 2 PDC (40t) for each missile (50t), I doubt that missle heavy fleets can be used well in the long run. They might work, though, if your enemy doesn't know your designs, yet . Ramming ships (frigates/destroyers) can be used effectively on warp points, if your opponent has a higher player number than you (just found that out today when I lost my elite ships to a ramming attack).

Depending on what you trying to accomplish with your fleet, maximum range can be quite effective with direct fire weapons. Especially if you hit better than your opponent and you use engine killers. Also max range gives you more time to shoot down enemy seekers.

Rollo

[edit]: typos

[This message has been edited by Rollo (edited 26 September 2001).]

[Dragonlord]

One thing about the higher player number: I ams till not convinced that such a player would shoot first in a strategic battle. Other factors are ship speeds, formation, and weapon range. I am ranked 1st (because I am host) in some PBW games and do not always fire the first shot in combat.

[Saxon]

Nice thread idea!

Targeting is very important when you are trying to do something fancy. A good example is if you want to invade a planet instead of just glassing it while you take out the enemy defenders. Don’t forget to turn the planet targeting off. Since ships seem to count so heavily in scoring, I have also chosen to run down transports and colony ships before damaging the planet. This drives the enemies score down and increases the chance of a surrender. With big empires, it doesn’t make much difference, but early on against the single system races, it can help a lot.

If you are fighting the AI, it seems to me that they usually go after your biggest ships first. I would suggest that Humans who don’t pay much attention to their fleet orders would use this default AI. If you are facing such a person, building a larger than average ship with lots of shields and armor may draw the early enemy fire while your offensive forces are unhindered. I usually throw in some supply or repair components, so the ship does serve some other purpose than just soaking up fire. You should also throw in one small direct fire weapon, so the ship does get involved in the fighting and will get targeted by those targeting weapons.

Further opinions of mine include that missile fleets become less useful later in the game and much less useful if in a long war with a human. As people start to use larger ship designs, throwing in one or two PDC on a ship is a common insurance against missiles and fighters. I sometimes even throw one in as I don’t see anything else useful to add to the ship. If you are facing a race that uses lots of missiles or fighters, building small, PDC only ships (one DUC to keep them in the front lines) is cheap, fast and highly effective. Most humans figure this out and will soon make it impossible for you to hit them with missiles. Those who don’t figure it out are probably going to get beaten anyway…

Actually, has anyone faced a heavy missile fleet with carrier and fighter support? All that together might swamp most PDC combinations. I am guessing not, as I never see any postings about fighters.

[Rollo]

Dragonlord,
I agree with you that player number has little or no effect in open space battle. On warppoints, however, having a lower player number gives you a huge advantage, because you can fire a full broadside at point blank crippeling or even destroying the enemy fleet before they can fire a shot. Satellites are a good warppoint defense, if you have a low player number and they are totally useless, if you are Last in the list.

Rollo

[capnq]

quote:

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If you are fighting the AI, it seems to me that they usually go after your biggest ships first. I would suggest that Humans who don’t pay much attention to their fleet orders would use this default AI. If you are facing such a person, building a larger than average ship with lots of shields and armor may draw the early enemy fire while your offensive forces are unhindered.

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I sometimes use specialty ships with one of the Massive weapons from ruins in this role, if I've found any. They're usually the first thing the AI targets, even if there are larger hulls in the fleet. My impression is that the AI tends to go after the most expensive ship, not necessarily the biggest.

------------------
Cap'n Q
My first mod! Hypermaze quadrant
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

[dumbluck]

A couple of quick points

quote:

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Originally posted by Commander G2:
To Hit modifiers are vital for Direct Fire weapons. Important Technologies to have are Advanced Military Science (Fleet/Ship training), Armor 4-6 (Stealth Armor and Scattering Armor), Sensors 1-3 and Combat Support 1-3 (ECMs). Also consider using a smaller hull to get better defense. For example, if you oppponent has a 20% chance to hit you, a smaller sized hull can decrease the chance to 10% or maybe even 1%, depending on how much smaller you go.

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Some Racial techs have facilities that affect tohit bonuses for combat in-system. Temporal has the Events Predictor, and Religious (IIRC) has a couple of Shrines that help in combat in system, as well. (Keep in mind that these would NOT stack. I think...) And Psycic has a varient of the Ship/Fleet training facilities.

Also, Fighters get BIG tohit bonuses, and require no maintenence. Just two or three big carriers can (IMHO) replace a fleet of 15-20 missle ships (give or take). But BEWARE THE PDC!!! Once he is protected by a couple of PDC cruisers, your fighters are in for a world of hurt. You could try to add some missle ships to your fleet in an attempt to overwhelm the PDCs, but that is getting expensive on the maintenance side of things....

quote:

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Also, remember to give your fleets a better formation than arrow. Arrow is about the worst thing to use in most cases. Try using wall or spider. I usually use wall, unless I am defending a carrier or some other valuable ship, in which case I use Decoy or Spider instead.

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About formations... I don't use them anymore. I got REALLY tired of having half my missle fleet move out of firing range while the other half closes to point blank range (ouch), all because the leader decided to make a 90 degree turn! So anymore, I just mark ALL ships to break formation. That way each ship moves to the best position for IT.

I wish I could take credit for this idea, but alas, I read it somewhere here on these Boards and said to myself, "that sounds like a good idea!". I haven't looked back since. The only thing I _might be concerned about are how a carrier group would fit in to this.

[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Gorgo]

quote:

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Originally posted by dumbluck:
A couple of quick points



About formations... I don't use them anymore. I got REALLY tired of having half my missle fleet move out of firing range while the other half closes to point blank range (ouch), all because the leader decided to make a 90 degree turn! So anymore, I just mark ALL ships to break formation. That way each ship moves to the best position for IT.

I wish I could take credit for this idea, but alas, I read it somewhere here on these Boards and said to myself, "that sounds like a good idea!". I haven't looked back since. The only thing I _might be concerned about are how a carrier group would fit in to this.

[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

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This sounds like a really cool idea, yet one problem comes to mind immediately - what about if you have ships with really different speeds? If you have stolen some or play a psychic race, your fast ships could have already been killed when the slower ones have just moved into range? Apart from that, it sounds great to me.

[AJC]

I prefer to use the Wall formation , Optimum weapons range on the ship designs and Short range for fleet strategy.

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: AJC ]